Topic by matthew

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  • matthew
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Topic: Not enough bass?

I would like to ask pianists who have extensive experience on both real grand pianos and Pianoteq: Do you find the treble keys to be exaggerated in Pianoteq? I previously posted a topic about how, after practicing using just Pianoteq for a couple years, I played some real grands and had trouble controlling the left hand, which on the real pianos was much louder than the right (but not in Pianoteq). My teacher said that my left hand was WAY too loud, and indeed it was, especially in some Beethoven sonatas. When I sent her a sample MP3 recorded with PT, however, she said the left-right balance was fine.

I have tried a couple pairs of headphones, and they didn't make much of a difference with the bass. My main pair is the Sony MDR-7506.

If the bass is indeed underrepresented in PT, does anyone have any recommendations for mic-placement adjustments, in order to make the "daily" presets more representative of a real grand in the bass? I do not think EQ is the answer in this case.

Reply by stamkorg

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Re: Not enough bass?

matthew wrote:

I would like to ask pianists who have extensive experience on both real grand pianos and Pianoteq: Do you find the treble keys to be exaggerated in Pianoteq? I previously posted a topic about how, after practicing using just Pianoteq for a couple years, I played some real grands and had trouble controlling the left hand, which on the real pianos was much louder than the right (but not in Pianoteq). My teacher said that my left hand was WAY too loud, and indeed it was, especially in some Beethoven sonatas. When I sent her a sample MP3 recorded with PT, however, she said the left-right balance was fine.

I have tried a couple pairs of headphones, and they didn't make much of a difference with the bass. My main pair is the Sony MDR-7506.

If the bass is indeed underrepresented in PT, does anyone have any recommendations for mic-placement adjustments, in order to make the "daily" presets more representative of a real grand in the bass? I do not think EQ is the answer in this case.

I find in Pianoteq most presets are recording oriented. Try a "Player" preset. The basses are more present in these presets

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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Re: Not enough bass?

Hello Mr. Stamkorg,

As a person who has performed on stage with a concert grand, and who has practiced in a home and studio setting, I can attest that the bass sounds MUCH heavier in a home and studio locale.  Even if you hear a piano concert in a large venue, you will be surprised just how comparatively "little" the bass sounds in a concert hall venue.

The same thing is true when you hear a good male voice sing in a small listening area as compared to the same person singing in a concert hall or opera house -- the large hall "swallows up" up the bass.

Very similar things happen with Pianoteq -- larger concert venues equate to less emphasized bass.

* * * * *

Now, if you have Pianoteq Pro, you are certainly able to compensate for this loss in bass, by progressively increasing the fundamental harmonics of the lowest two and one-half octaves of the piano.  At first, try adjusting the first (fundamental) harmonics, and then increase the second (the octave harmonic) by about one-third as much as whatever your first harmonic value is.  I can assure you that you will get increased bass without having to resort to EQ (which won't sound right, anyway), but the overall sound will be unnatural as far as reproducing anything that is done in a non-amplified concert venue.  (Of course, all bets are off when the real acoustic piano is in an amplified large auditorium -- its sound is at the discretion of the mixing engineer in a popular music venue.)

Hope this helps,

Joe

Reply by Ross

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Re: Not enough bass?

In Standard version you can change volume note by note: double click volume slider.

Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Reply by stamkorg

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Re: Not enough bass?

jcfelice88keys wrote:

Hello Mr. Stamkorg,

As a person who has performed on stage with a concert grand, and who has practiced in a home and studio setting, I can attest that the bass sounds MUCH heavier in a home and studio locale.  Even if you hear a piano concert in a large venue, you will be surprised just how comparatively "little" the bass sounds in a concert hall venue.

The same thing is true when you hear a good male voice sing in a small listening area as compared to the same person singing in a concert hall or opera house -- the large hall "swallows up" up the bass.

Very similar things happen with Pianoteq -- larger concert venues equate to less emphasized bass.

* * * * *

Now, if you have Pianoteq Pro, you are certainly able to compensate for this loss in bass, by progressively increasing the fundamental harmonics of the lowest two and one-half octaves of the piano.  At first, try adjusting the first (fundamental) harmonics, and then increase the second (the octave harmonic) by about one-third as much as whatever your first harmonic value is.  I can assure you that you will get increased bass without having to resort to EQ (which won't sound right, anyway), but the overall sound will be unnatural as far as reproducing anything that is done in a non-amplified concert venue.  (Of course, all bets are off when the real acoustic piano is in an amplified large auditorium -- its sound is at the discretion of the mixing engineer in a popular music venue.)

Hope this helps,

Joe

Hello,

Thank you for your input.
So I am in the right direction when I say that the "player" settings are more appropriate if you just want to play... no?

Last edited by stamkorg (26-03-2015 19:50)

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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Re: Not enough bass?

stamkorg wrote:

So I am in the right direction when I say that the "player" settings are more appropriate if you just want to play... no?

Yes, you are going in the right direction.

Cheers, Joe