Topic: Latest recording & need software recommendation

It's been a while, I know. I've been hard at work on lots of different aspects of my music career, and also still enjoying Pianoteq tremendously.

Here is an mp3 I just recorded this week with the D4! http://fundamentalkeys.com/Intermezzo-20150307.mp3

Working on a blog post now about Pianoteq.

I really need help with software recommendations. I want to be able to do a bit of MIDI editing on my Pianoteq performances, and I'm getting really frustrated. As a classical musician, there are sometimes tiny tweaks I'd like to be able to make -- like changing the speed of a pedal release, or changing the note-off velocity here and there to make a slow chord release more realistic.

Every DAW I've tried has some kind of limitation that gets in my way. Driving me NUTS!

So, here's what I need...

A Windows 8 compatible program that will allow me to record using Pianoteq as a plug-in and that will record all the parameters that Pianoteq uses.
It must also be able to simultaneously run the reverb VST I like to use.
I would like to also be able to edit ALL the MIDI parameters on a note-by-note basis including but not limited to:
* note-off velocity
* damping speed
* progressive pedaling

I've tried Reaper and Presonus Studio One extensively. Neither one gives me all the options I am looking for. Other DAW's I tried I discounted off the bat because they seemed to be too complex, but I will revisit anything that will give me the level of detail I am looking for in the MIDI editor!

Thanks in advance for your help, folks!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Hello Rachel,

I have owned and tried a number of DAWs over the past 25 years.  Also as a classically trained pianist and pipe organist, I have one and only one PC-based DAW that will do everything you wish, regarding midi:  Digital Performer 8, by MOTU.

In fact, DP8 does allow you to graphically edit note release values (that normally default to note-off velocity = 64), and you can draw in any type of pedal release speeds you wish.

Currently, I also use Logic Pro, but it's confined to the Macintosh platform; ironically, if I need to perform some slight midi tweaks, also of the type you've mentioned, I export my files either from Pianoteq midi recordings or from Logic Pro as standard midi files, and then import them into Digital Performer 8 -- with zero hassle, and perform those little tweaks that transform already decent performances into great ones.

Incidentally, I have made demos of Rhapsody in Blue and others for East West Quantum Leap Pianos, in the past -- before encountering Pianoteq.  One of my pet gripes for EWQL pianos was that certain velocity ranges involved out-of-tune unisons.  While preparing my demos for Nick Phoenix of EWQL, I was constantly going in and, for example, avoiding note-on velocities of a certain note G, say, between 77 and 84.  Digital Performer (then version 6) was my go-to DAW to exorcise all of those velocities for certain notes that were out of tune!  (There were seemingly dozens of velocity ranges for untold numbers of individual key notes whose tuning was incorrect!)  DP6 to the rescue.

I am not associated with MOTU in any way; however, I give this DAW my highest recommendation -- in terms of midi editing ease and capability of any PC based program, bar none.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Joe, thank you for that recommendation! I should have come here first. I actually bought Studio One because the interface was so nice, not even thinking that it wouldn't be able to do what I needed.

Will look into Digital Performer tonight! Excited!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Reaper does just fine all the things you need (just head out to the pre-release section of Reaper forums where Reaper 5 beta is available, you will notice it takes care of note-off editing as well - this is new in Reaper 5!). And of course you can edit all the MIDI CC data (like sustain pedal)!

It's an affordable solution, but extremely powerful - people always seem to dismiss it because of the price, but that's quite wrong. You cannot say it doesn't do what you want until you've explored it more in-depth. It sure does everything you need.

Last edited by EvilDragon (09-03-2015 23:57)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Hi EvilDragon!

I purchased a license for Reaper and have used it for my last few recording projects. At some point, it was crashing on me when I tried to edit MIDI, and to fix it I had to roll back to an older version. And recently, I poked around looking for note-off values, and couldn't find them!

I'll download the Beta and see what's new! Thanks!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

BTW that's a mighty fine recording you've done there in the first post!

Hard work and guts!

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Thanks!

Just opened the MIDI file in Reaper 5 beta. Indeed, note-off velocity is there! But I was surprised to find that every note's off-velocity was equal to its ON-velocity! I thought that Pianoteq defaulted to a note-off velocity of 127 when the keyboard didn't support it. Confused...

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

That is governed by the note-off velocity curve in Pianoteq

I am not 100% certain, but I think if the note-off is not sent by the controller, it's probably supposed to be either 0 or 64...


What's your MIDI controller?

Last edited by EvilDragon (10-03-2015 00:12)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

I use a Yamaha P-140. It does not support note-off velocity. My Pianoteq note-off velocity curve is set to the default which is a straight horizontal line all the way up at 127. But Reaper shows each note's on and off velocity are equal. I'll have to try recording something with Reaper later and see what happens. Maybe recording into Studio One did that for some reason?

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

I think Reaper probably assumes note-off = note-on for previously recorded material (when opening a project done in Reaper 4, or a MIDI file produced by a different DAW that has no note-offs)...

Hard work and guts!

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Aha... Now I recorded right into Reaper, and it gave all notes a note-off velocity of 0. That's more logical. I can go in and set them all to, say, 100 and change a few to make them slower. Ahhhhh. So happy!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Hi Rachel - that Intermezzo mp3 is indeed very nice.  I can't offer much in the way of advice on the PC daw scene but I use a MAC and Logic Express.  I open two different PTQs one with one of the vibraphone presets and one with a D4 preset and one with the resident acoustic bass from Logic Express.  That's about all I do in the way of multi-voice.

Lanny

Re: Latest recording & need software recommendation

Do any DAWs yet faithfully record partial key releases/repeats from tri-sensor keyboards? I tried a few some years ago and none of them did.  If you're going to test it, make sure you save the project and re-open it to see whether the data is saved properly. (I say this because I think one of them - Reaper? - recorded it properly initially, but then lost it when the project was saved)

Partial repeats consist of consecutive Note-On messages, without intervening Note-Offs. The Note-Offs are sent all together, when the key is released fully after the run of partial repeats.

It's a very subtle thing, and not something I'm concerned about for my playing. However, it bugs me a little bit knowing that the DAW is modifying the MIDI data in some way. The note repeats can still be heard, but the fact that the (virtual) strings are damped when they shouldn't be may result in a subtle change in the sound.

Greg.

Last edited by skip (13-03-2015 09:30)