Topic: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

An absolutely related to all similar software issue that one cannot help noticing is the lack or disappearance of sound crispiness with the increase of music fabric density. It is an illness from which all the VST pianos suffer, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the samples, velocity layers, etc, but with the engine itself. Either the developers have to rethink the engines, or introduce some corrections with increase of music density. Seriously, many sampled performance you find on the webpages have some jazz compositions with very thin music fabric - they sound crisp, and high frequencies are very bright. But once you start playing something with all 10 fingers, god forbids, professionally and in good tempo, the sound becomes dull, muddy, and cannot be compared even to an old youtube performance, which sound much crispier. I got frustrated with this issue with all major soft, I basically tried all there is on the market. Tone and hummer hardness help but not much, since you want the sound bright and crisp, not metallic. Where do all the high frequencies go with you increase sound saturation? why does the sound becomes so muddy and dull? why it does not with real instrument and microphones?

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

Concrete comparative examples would be nice. Can you give some?

formerly known as Notyetconvinced

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

I can. I will. ... Just have to think of how to control for some subjective things, for the sake of clarity of my example.

Last edited by bwv544 (23-02-2015 13:40)

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

Maybe it have something with my English, but I don't get it. Though seems I can see the overall picture of the complain more or less. Generally speaking I don't see any problems with many notes involved, and yes, I play professionally (more or less). Though I see hundreds of minor areas to be improved but the overall situation with Ptq still continue to impress me a lot after about 3 months of everyday use. Speaking about "old youtube records" - it is the area where Ptq just shines for me, I mostly play using the emulation of some more old recording made from some distance, using some touch of tape saturation-compression, more reverb-to-dry settings - the result is just unnoticeable if it is the real recording or the artificial one. For a close up simulation, yes, it is hard, for a real thing with a good condenser microphone you can capture so many ghost sounds, mechanical noises, even how the felds touch the string - it is still hard to simulate. But, again, for a distant recording - just perfect.

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

Andrei, I described the issue very generally, very very generally and "overall." I did not go into the specifics. Many people will agree with me, and the issue was given some discussion here at the forum. People recognize that problem: the more sound (thicker music fabric) - the duller the sound overall. Some one recommended "reducing the volume." That indeed helps a bit.

Also, I do not say that Pianoteq sounds worse than youtube records. It sound better. It sounds better than ANY virtual pianos on the market. Yet, in some degree, it still has this dullness problem. Other virtual pianos have this problem to a larger degree. Although each individual sample is captured with microphones, just like a real piano, and each single sound is bright, when the engine mixes the sounds something happens with brightness and crispness of the overall fabric. Individual notes are not discernible any more within the chords, the sound has kind of "muffled" quality to it. Muffled is the right word, although dull, not bright, can also work.

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

One other issue I don't understand - why the quieter lighter notes (low velocity) have more reverb and appear as if from a distance while louder notes appear closer to the instrument, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. True instruments to the listener in the hall sound nothing like that. It is impossible to realistically simulate a true concert performance with this sound being SOOOO unequal (reverb-wise) across the velocity line.

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

My suggestion is that it is a common issue for any Hi-End audio equipment enthusiast. The more density and volume in the music content (any kind) - the more problem issues shown with the equipment. It is about any part of the audio trakt - source, preamp, power amp, the speaker. They all can become a "bottleneck". Even the connection cords for some extreme situations. It is much easier to realistically reproduce the quiet and discreet material. That can explain how lowering the volume helps you to solve it.

Last edited by AKM (23-02-2015 14:25)

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

If being very picky then I can say that I'd sure like more hi-frequency information being precisely and realistically emulated but it is really all about a long road from the artificial emulation to the real world "God-reality-emulation" algorithms. Anyway, they are getting closer and closer all the way :)

Last edited by AKM (23-02-2015 14:23)

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

AKM wrote:

My suggestion is that it is a common issue for any Hi-End audio equipment enthusiast. The more density and volume in the music content (any kind) - the more problem issues shown with the equipment. It is about any part of the audio trakt - source, preamp, power amp, the speaker. They all can become a "bottleneck". Even the connection cords for some extreme situations. It is much easier to realistically reproduce the quiet and discreet material. That can explain how lowering the volume helps you to solve it.

Наверное Вы правы. Действительно bottleneck. Но не понимаю правда почему звук в целом становится глухим когда комп мешает индивидуальные звонкие звуки вместе. Это что, алгоритм? Я и говорю - движок такой у всех дурной. Недоделанный.

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

Так, если мое предположение верно, то это дело не в цифровой эмуляции, это проблема аудио-аппаратуры - колонки, усилитель (встроенный?) звуковая карта, либо что-то в отдельности либо все вместе может создавать описываемую проблему. В случае с наушниками все то же самое.

Re: A universal issue with ALL virtual piano soft including pianoteque

No, but i mean all things being equal. Headphones. Speakers.