Topic by matthew

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Topic: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

First question: The Kremsegg collections cost the same as the D4 and Blüthner, but have four pianos instead of one. Why? Did less work go into them? Are they less realistic than the others? I have played all of them, and I love them, but I guess I don't have good enough ears to figure out what makes some pianos worth 49 euro a piece, and the Kremsegg four for 49 euro.

Second question: Say someone's primary interest is improving their playing. What would be the best piano for that? Someone posted that the K2 is best, since it has less "character" and forces you to develop your own style. I have noticed, for example, that it's much easier for me to sound good using the Blüthner in say, Chopin's preludes, than the K2. So will practicing with the K2 make me a better pianist in the end?

Reply by Ross

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

D4, Bluethner, K2 are modern pianos. KiViR and Kremsegg are old historic pianos. If you like Kremsegg -- play them. But my ears (and I think most others) prefer sound of modern pianos for most music and everyday use. So, modern pianos are more popular and no wonder that they costs much more that old pianos.

Last edited by Ross (09-02-2015 22:12)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Reply by DonSmith

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

matthew wrote:

... but I guess I don't have good enough ears to figure out what makes some pianos worth 49 euro a piece, and the Kremsegg four for 49 euro.

Shhh! Don't give them any ideas.

Reply by EdwardianPiano

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

The Kremsegg collection are awesome! My bro loaded the demo and played them on his Clavinova. The Broadwood was staggering! The sound filled the room-I was hugely impressed- it sounded so real.
I prefer historical pianos for 18th and 19th century music.

Reply by matthew

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

Ross wrote:

So, modern pianos are more popular and no wonder that they costs much more that old pianos.

I guess I still wonder, though. I mean, I don't know much about marketing, but is the only reason the modern pianos cost more because they are more popular, and the company can make more money? Or are there objective criteria related to the quality of the instrument itself that influence the price? For example, the time spent developing an instrument, or the resources used in its development? To me, a lower price indicates lower quality. Since I don't hear this lower quality myself, I would be curious to know where it manifests itself.

Reply by Ross

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

"Quality" of soung is very very subjective property. Popularity is more objective and measurable. And yes, Modartt works for money.

Last edited by Ross (10-02-2015 08:01)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Reply by Mossy

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

Modern pianos can be used for a variety of music.  Historic pianos are a bit harder ... sometimes the sound just isn't right (compared to what your audience might be used to).  Hence, historic pianos don't have the same wider commercial appeal.

https://soundcloud.com/mossy456/

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

matthew wrote:

First question: The Kremsegg collections cost the same as the D4 and Blüthner, but have four pianos instead of one. Why? Did less work go into them? Are they less realistic than the others? I have played all of them, and I love them, but I guess I don't have good enough ears to figure out what makes some pianos worth 49 euro a piece, and the Kremsegg four for 49 euro.

What follows it's just speculation anyway...
I think they are a sort of niche product because you don't find many people interested in historical pianos for various reasons, the main one has already been said: we're not used to that sound and they may actually sound strange to people who have never heard a fortepiano or a clavichord playing. Less so with pianos closer to our modern piano sound (19th century) like the Bechstein, the Streicher, the Pleyel and the Erard, because you can still find that sound in older recordings for example or you can find them more suitable for jazz piano or ragtime. But again not all pianist can appreciate them.
P.S.: An interesting thing to know would be if part of the money goes for restoring and mantaining those instruments which would make me personally far more willing to buy both.

matthew wrote:

Second question: Say someone's primary interest is improving their playing. What would be the best piano for that? Someone posted that the K2 is best, since it has less "character" and forces you to develop your own style. I have noticed, for example, that it's much easier for me to sound good using the Blüthner in say, Chopin's preludes, than the K2. So will practicing with the K2 make me a better pianist in the end?

It seems to me there is not such a huge difference between practising on D4 or K2 with similar settings. Just choose the piano you love more in terms of output: if you love the sound you will likely spend more hours on that piano rather than becoming tired very soon.

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Are Kremsegg second-rate pianos? And what's the best for practice?

Modartt used not to charge for historical pianos add ons, like the KiVIR collection.

But they have a huge work to create such vintage instruments, and also need
authorization of the museums to use the real modesl as reference. And the constant development and refining, of pianoteq engine, also require money.

So, for this Kremsegg collections they decided to charge a friendly price, 4 historic pianos model for the price of one modern one, for pianoteq collection.

It's very interesting to listen Beethoven, Mozart and Chopin, using a piano model with of the historic period of each composer.  But many people, the overal market, don't give much value to vintage isntruments.  That's another reason the price it's very friendily for Kremsegg add-ons.

it's much more any piano software company ever did vintage piano models.
I believe Philippe have some passion or so for vintage instruments.

Last edited by Beto-Music (10-02-2015 15:54)