Topic by Kridlatec

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Topic: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

Hello everyone! Need a little help with 5.1 sound in PT.

Yesterday I bought spdif-cable. The aim was to connect my old Home Cinema Centre to my new TV. My Centre is old enough to have hdmi, that is why it was standing without work for few years (DVD is not actual now) but as my new TV has optical jack it was not a problem to give Home Cinema a new life. Finally I connected it and everything is good - I again have 5.1 system working with my TV.
I often watch films from my PC through HDMI. After little test I get what I wanted: even films from PC worked with my 5.1 system without any problems. The final way for sound is:
PC -> HDMI -> TV -> spdif -> Home cinema.
Everything is great.

And now about my problem. After all this tests I decided to try Pianoteq with it. But Pianoteq don't offer me all 5 channels. Only two of them. I guess this is because TV (to which PC is connected) is considered as stereo system... I tried PT settings (just two channels is offered) and PC audio settings, but couldn't find how to make PT get all of them. This was my first time using 5.1 with PT, may be I don't know something?

Have you any ideas how to change the situation?

Last edited by Kridlatec (06-02-2015 12:21)
Pianoteq 6 Pro (D4, K2, Blüthner, Model B, Grotrian, Ant.Petrof)
Studiologic SL88Grand, Steinberg UR22mkII

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

It might be a drivers problem; are you using ASIO or Directsound? I think Directsound can't use more than 2 channels, but I might be wrong. Are you on XP, Vista, or Win 7, 8? Things have changes between WDM, WASAPI and whatever else...

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Reply by Kridlatec

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

Luc Henrion wrote:

It might be a drivers problem; are you using ASIO or Directsound? I think Directsound can't use more than 2 channels, but I might be wrong. Are you on XP, Vista, or Win 7, 8? Things have changes between WDM, WASAPI and whatever else...

Hello, Luc! Thank you! My system is Win7. I tried different drivers, but no result...

Have spending few hours testing system, I decided that sound from my Home Cinema, when i watch 5.1 films through PC, wasn't true 5.1, but just imitation, turned on option (surround) through Centre. After all tests I came to a conclusion that problem is with TV, which doesn't receive 6-channel sound through HDMI (or doesn't send it through spdif) , but only stereo... That is why PT don't offer me more than 2 channels. I am continuing to investigate the problem

Unfortunately, I don't have hdmi on Home Cinema and optical jack on PC.

Last edited by Kridlatec (06-02-2015 15:37)
Pianoteq 6 Pro (D4, K2, Blüthner, Model B, Grotrian, Ant.Petrof)
Studiologic SL88Grand, Steinberg UR22mkII

Reply by bandoneonista

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

Since S/P-DIF does not support uncompressed 5.1 sound (it is either uncompressed stereo or compressed surround, i.e. DTS or DD), that is not going to work anyways unless you use some kind of real-time DTS or DD encoder (which for Windows may be included with some sound card drivers, it is not needed for watching e.g. DVDs since their already encoded signal can just be passed through by the player software), and even then only if your TV also passes this signal through unchanged, so your home cinema system can still decode it.

You shouldn't expect much of an improvement in Pianoteq audio through the use of a home surround system, though. If you can set up your system to use the subwoofer in addition to the front stereo speakers, that may be useful assuming it does not distort the basses too much (which is not all that unlikely for a typical home cinema setup), but the average surround speakers, IMHO, won't do a lot of good.

Reply by Kridlatec

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

bandoneonista wrote:

Since S/P-DIF does not support uncompressed 5.1 sound (it is either uncompressed stereo or compressed surround, i.e. DTS or DD), that is not going to work anyways unless you use some kind of real-time DTS or DD encoder (which for Windows may be included with some sound card drivers, it is not needed for watching e.g. DVDs since their already encoded signal can just be passed through by the player software), and even then only if your TV also passes this signal through unchanged, so your home cinema system can still decode it.

You shouldn't expect much of an improvement in Pianoteq audio through the use of a home surround system, though. If you can set up your system to use the subwoofer in addition to the front stereo speakers, that may be useful assuming it does not distort the basses too much (which is not all that unlikely for a typical home cinema setup), but the average surround speakers, IMHO, won't do a lot of good.

Thank you, bandoneonista! Reading different forums I came to a same conclusion)
Anyway Home Cinema is a big improvement, as my basic monitors are just 30 Watt microlab, and they are not able to recreate the sound of a real grand, but the whole power of Home Cinema is nearly 600 Watt. Especially given that it has good 220 Watt subwoofer) Though I still hadn't time to connect my keyboard to this setup and to test it)

To tell the truth, I was really intrested in true 5.1 sound, assuming it would bring new emotions to my musical sessions. Have you (or anyone else) tried such setups? There is still a chance to buy new soundcard (with spdif and dolby live) or new receiver (with hdmi)

Last edited by Kridlatec (07-02-2015 10:03)
Pianoteq 6 Pro (D4, K2, Blüthner, Model B, Grotrian, Ant.Petrof)
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Reply by Beemer

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

Kridlatec wrote:

Hello everyone! Need a little help with 5.1 sound in PT.

Yesterday I bought spdif-cable. The aim was to connect my old Home Cinema Centre to my new TV. My Centre is old enough to have hdmi, that is why it was standing without work for few years (DVD is not actual now) but as my new TV has optical jack it was not a problem to give Home Cinema a new life. Finally I connected it and everything is good - I again have 5.1 system working with my TV.
I often watch films from my PC through HDMI. After little test I get what I wanted: even films from PC worked with my 5.1 system without any problems. The final way for sound is:
PC -> HDMI -> TV -> spdif -> Home cinema.
Everything is great.

And now about my problem. After all this tests I decided to try Pianoteq with it. But Pianoteq don't offer me all 5 channels. Only two of them. I guess this is because TV (to which PC is connected) is considered as stereo system... I tried PT settings (just two channels is offered) and PC audio settings, but couldn't find how to make PT get all of them. This was my first time using 5.1 with PT, may be I don't know something?

Have you any ideas how to change the situation?

You have me confused over two issues:

Firstly when HDMI is in use it is designed to disable SP/DIF to prevent illegal copying of digital sound.  Do you have any other connection, e.g analog stereo or SCART from your TV to your Home Cinema Amp?

Secondly just how do you expect  a midi keyboard to output more than midi signals or line output stereo?

Ian

Reply by Kridlatec

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

Beemer wrote:
Kridlatec wrote:

Hello everyone! Need a little help with 5.1 sound in PT.

Yesterday I bought spdif-cable. The aim was to connect my old Home Cinema Centre to my new TV. My Centre is old enough to have hdmi, that is why it was standing without work for few years (DVD is not actual now) but as my new TV has optical jack it was not a problem to give Home Cinema a new life. Finally I connected it and everything is good - I again have 5.1 system working with my TV.
I often watch films from my PC through HDMI. After little test I get what I wanted: even films from PC worked with my 5.1 system without any problems. The final way for sound is:
PC -> HDMI -> TV -> spdif -> Home cinema.
Everything is great.

And now about my problem. After all this tests I decided to try Pianoteq with it. But Pianoteq don't offer me all 5 channels. Only two of them. I guess this is because TV (to which PC is connected) is considered as stereo system... I tried PT settings (just two channels is offered) and PC audio settings, but couldn't find how to make PT get all of them. This was my first time using 5.1 with PT, may be I don't know something?

Have you any ideas how to change the situation?

You have me confused over two issues:

Firstly when HDMI is in use it is designed to disable SP/DIF to prevent illegal copying of digital sound.  Do you have any other connection, e.g analog stereo or SCART from your TV to your Home Cinema Amp?

Secondly just how do you expect  a midi keyboard to output more than midi signals or line output stereo?

Ian

Hello Beemer! May be I don't understand you, but I don't need SCART or another stereo jacks, as my TV can translate audio from HDMI to SPDIF. The problem is, that in this chain I loose 5.1 As we found earlier issues are in compression, or in supporting 5.1 traslation or in licensing.

And, sorry once more, I didn't understand your second statement about keyboard. Cause I don't need to connect my Keyboard to Home Cinema or TV. It's pluged to PC by usb, working as midi-keyboard for Pianoteq.

Pianoteq 6 Pro (D4, K2, Blüthner, Model B, Grotrian, Ant.Petrof)
Studiologic SL88Grand, Steinberg UR22mkII

Reply by Kridlatec

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Re: 5.1 through hdmi and spdif

P.S. I just wanted to know, is there any chance to transmit 5.1 sound using this system
PC (Pianoteq) --> hdmi --> TV --> SPDIF (optical) --> Home Cinema
Now I think, the answer is "no"

That is why another question. Is there any way to transmit 5.1 sound from PC (Pianoteq) to Home Cinema directly?
Through what it's possible? Hdmi? Spdif?
And what souncards can transmit and compress 5.1 sound live (through optical spdif)?
And how can I know that my HC can uncompress it?

And thanks to everyone, who can help)

Pianoteq 6 Pro (D4, K2, Blüthner, Model B, Grotrian, Ant.Petrof)
Studiologic SL88Grand, Steinberg UR22mkII