What is all that velocity curves really about?

Now let,s face it, Andree, nothing concerning the living beings acts totally linear; most of the time a log or e-function better describes things. like our hearing for instance. So it is quite understandable, that also our muscles are most of the time actuated in a non-linear way.

So, what are we talking about then?? It is one of the pretty things with virtual machines, that you can taylour things so that they work to your personal satisfaction.

Of course, when one has to switch between a certain acoustic piano and the virtual one, it is wise, to match the velocity settings more or less to get the same results.

I see, that there are people here on the forum, who like to share their settings. But, that is rather ridiculous in my opinion; one needs to find his own settings. Its like playing the clarinet or other reed instruments; the strength of a certain reed works well for someone, while the other cannot produce the same soundquality with that  reed. So we all work our reeds.

Are you actually playing a virtual piano, and what is your experience with it??

Greetings,

Geert

I don't have the Pianoteq software, but based on my experience with my Casio, the voice I like best is "mellow," while it is good over all, it definitely lacks brightness in the upper register.  I believe velocity curves would be used to compensate for the output of a a given MIDI keyboard controller, which are obviously not created equal.  It's not a question of classical style or jazz style, rather getting a given MIDI equipment assemblage to be playable and pleasant sounding

By the way Chopin was clearly a "jazz" pianist.  That is to say he improvised beautifully, but only wrote down his compositions with great difficulty.  In essence he was an "ear" player.  This is well documented if you do the research.

As an aside, the hammers on an acoustic grand need to be "voiced".  It a process of adjusting the hardness of the hammers so that they have more of less same quality of sound as their neighbors.  It's been my experience that the treble hammers need to be harder, while the bass section would be softer in general as in my opinion you don't want a twangy bass.  Hammers need to be replaced, not just because the felt is worn out, but it can become too hard and brittle over time depending on the climate.

Of course velocity and hammer brightness are not the same thing.  Generally one does not adjust the "velocity" of an acoustic grand but on the other hand key dip, and the moment of jack release, and hammer drop along with the back check all play into it, not to mention the scaling of the strings themselves. Better instruments are better conceived from the very beginning, but also need to be properly regulated.

The idea of at least the Pianoteq Pro software is to give you the potential of minute adjustments to the sound of individual notes.  That would be a good thing, be you, Scarlatti, Chopin, Debussy, Hampton Hawes or Stockhausen.

You have to understand that on an electronic instrument, a key or note is just an "on / off" event. Velocity is in essence the loudness of a given on / off event.  However this is complicated by the fact that the timbre of an actual acoustic grand changes with increased "velocity."   Notes struck hard in the bass do become more twangy no matter the hammer hardness.  This is the challenge for the creator of an electronic piano voice, and also one of the reasons most electronic pianos sound shallow or thin, while being comparatively lifeless.

To conclude, it's less about musical style, and more about instrument setup, and how well an electronically created sound can deceive your ear.

I think "hip" players play with a lot  of "pop."  They know how to put it in the "pocket."  The better a player can play jazz, the better he or she will play alleged "classical".  Classical being mostly antique music which was written down due to the lack of any ability to record it.  The Miles Davis "Sketches of Spain" must be considered a "classic." at this point in time.

yeah brother

I,m a fan of Bill Evans. But, just lioke Brubeck, they have such big hands........while mine are  way too small.

More on topic: for me the preset "Pianoteq"curve in my VPC-1 suits me wonderful. My guess is, that people at Kawai listened rather well to some Pianoteq virtual instruments.

Of course, the weighting of the keys also plays in this; if I remember well, our Andrej likes keys that do not have much inertia in the form of built-in weights, but it is my experience, that a proper weighted keybed helps me a lot in varying the touch-velocity.
So many people, so many meanings.....

Greetings,

Geert

But not as easy as Art Tatum playing 10ths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F737M573SYM

and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kACt0FM0Kf8

Ian

  he was incredible... not just because of the hands though

Ok, I beleive that I may be wrong, but for me that VPC1 factory curves look like a marketing trick, that they call "approved by". What I think is that they just randomly moved something slightly - it can't seriously spoil the whole thing - and thats it, now they can "sell" it to public as an "exclusive feature". What purpose are they solve? Do they mean Pianoteq is nonlinear, so they corrected it by their "approved" curves? Or their keyboard is not linear, but why different curves for different manufacturers then? I say again, there is a big chance I keep that I'm wrong and just don't understand or know something, but just shared my way of thinking. Reminds me "Super Mega Bass 3D" sticker on a boombox.

...what was the method for getting that VPC1 curves, can anyone guess?

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Hi, new user here.

I think the important part is to know if your keyboard transmits all 127 velocity values, or has big jumps. From some other forums I have come to knwo that not all keyboards send the 127, so it's difficult to get full dinamic range with them. In part is important that software as pianoteq has a way of setting velocity curve response to overcome this problem.

Some specific midi controllers allow you to adjust the velocity curve, something not quite common on DP specially the entry level ones,so it is ncie to overcome this limitation in software pianos.

I think a database where people submitted the velocity values they can get out of their keyboard could be very usefull to make pruchasing decissions.

OK. First of all: I love the VPC-1 just because there are no sliders, knobs or other ugly and distracting things. Remember, it,s not an airoplane cockpit!

Of course, when you want a Midi master keyboard with all sorts of splits, CC sends, pitchbend, modulation, you use a different unit....
I have them all over here, and my experience is, that a comfortable piano-style touch is far more important for my playing pleasure then all those adjusters at hand.
Although a Korg Kronos X-88 could be satisfatory in both worlds??

Then Andrej: you often like to exaggerate a bit., in your evergoing suspicious mind towards manufacturers. You don,t need to buy the stuff....!
The velocity curve that i made myself, looks for 90% the same as the factory preset in the VPC. so it certainly is NOT a gadget only for selling this device.

Perhaps when you diminish critisizing somewhat, you get happier?? ( I hope).

The "velocity" is indeed measured as the time between  two contacts closing one at 10% keydown or so, and one at 90% keydown or so.
This is speed figure is directly coded into 1--127 in a lineair way.

Greetings.,

Geert