Topic by phill2107

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Topic: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

Around the second C from left to right (C2) . The B does it and a few notes around that C when pressed at FFF a metallic clank is heard after the tone around the frequency of the highest tones matching the bass tones  (strike low C and you heard a metallic tone in frequency of the highest C (C7) on the keyboard like a clang)

I looked to see if this was an issue and it isn't so apparently something I am doing. I reinstalled Pianoteq. Turned my speakers off and heard the same clang with headphones and my previous keyboard played the same noise.

Using the velocity curves of the VPC1 though that does not make a difference. Not sound adapter either as this happened with current and previous. Using Focusrite 2i2 right now.  All the presets have it though it can slightly vary. Any ideas?

Here is a link of the sound striking a C made with Pianoteq

http://hammondeer.tripod.com/pianoteq.wav

Phil

Last edited by phill2107 (09-11-2014 05:14)

Reply by AKM

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

From what you wrote and recorded it's not clear for me what's the problem to be honest. I'd suggest try some voicing, make it more soft for high velocities, also slightly moving the "blooming energy" slider can make the sound softer. May be adjust the "strike point" a little bit. Anyway, just blind guessing.

Last edited by AKM (09-11-2014 07:43)
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Reply by Beemer

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

All presets of which piano?

Ian

Reply by phill2107

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

Beemer wrote:

All presets of which piano?

Ian

I have Pianoteq Stage 5.11. And thanks for the replies. I even recorded a tune (I erased) and this sound was coming through I could hear it when I was playing in this bass area in the recording. Maybe it is me and it is an 'overtone' of the bass as it is not desonant.  Perhaps this is why I should upgrade to full Pianoteq as they may be tweaks that I can control these things that I hear that may be OK actually and part of the model (?)

I think that wav file I linked is quite clear of what I hear though maybe this is part of the FF/FFF model of that tone. Other tones do not do it around it. I believe 4 or 5 tones do it. The overtone noise is not, obviously, as loud as the key strike so turn volume up to hear what I am talking about on that link I put up.

Phil

Last edited by phill2107 (09-11-2014 17:29)

Reply by robsogge

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

phill2107 wrote:
Beemer wrote:

All presets of which piano?

Ian

I have Pianoteq Stage 5.11. And thanks for the replies. I even recorded a tune (I erased) and this sound was coming through I could hear it when I was playing in this bass area in the recording. Maybe it is me and it is an 'overtone' of the bass as it is not desonant.  Perhaps this is why I should upgrade to full Pianoteq as they may be tweaks that I can control these things that I hear that may be OK actually and part of the model (?)

I think that wav file I linked is quite clear of what I hear though maybe this is part of the FF/FFF model of that tone. Other tones do not do it around it. I believe 4 or 5 tones do it. The overtone noise is not, obviously, as loud as the key strike so turn volume up to hear what I am talking about on that link I put up.

Phil

Should you decide to upgrade, go for the pro version, if you can afford it... You can take every single key and do whatever adjustments you like, like correcting overtones and much more.
Here is, as an example, your C2 played at ff but with overtones around 7/8khz shut off:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...rected.mp3

Last edited by robsogge (09-11-2014 18:20)

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

Or he can upgrade to standard and adjust the Q factor and the cutoff to match his taste.
Personally speaking I like these metallic overtones coming from the bass strings in the ff range (it makes the bass strings much more alive and realistic).

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by AKM

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

May I guess that that is something just resonating in your room, i.e. window, table, wardrobe, book shelf, etc.

Andrei Kuznetsov
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Reply by phill2107

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

AKM wrote:

May I guess that that is something just resonating in your room, i.e. window, table, wardrobe, book shelf, etc.

Nope. Used high end head phones from my external USB sound adapter.  It was there too listening by headphones. That is what I thought at first like a metallic vibration from the VXT speaker stand. Thanks for the suggestion though

What I might be missing since I have no real piano grand here is that metallic overtone may be realistic to a C2 bass string struck hard on a real acoustic grand and it is modeled after that

Phil

Last edited by phill2107 (10-11-2014 02:53)

Reply by AKM

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

Are you able to make a recording with not a single note, but rather some musical phrase containing a problematic key and some other keys considered good? Maybe playing a scale?

It's totally a matter of taste, but lately I find myself prefer Bluthner presets or D4-K2 modified for a less brilliance. Bluthner model is softer by itself, much less "metallic noise". Although that "metallic sound" is more or less natural for the real pianos.

Last edited by AKM (10-11-2014 09:03)
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Reply by robsogge

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

I think the metallic ringing Phil is referring to is clearly audible, in his example... it's some distant overtones, between 7 and 8 khz. And I do find it to be a bit too noticeable, taking away some solidity in the sound.

Reply by phill2107

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

robsogge wrote:

I think the metallic ringing Phil is referring to is clearly audible, in his example... it's some distant overtones, between 7 and 8 khz. And I do find it to be a bit too noticeable, taking away some solidity in the sound.

To me it is 7 keys all the rest sound fine AND I don't have a grand to compare so these (I say again) may be correct in that range. I am using now D4 clean (doesn't really matter on the Stage). The F sounds great then it starts chromatically at E all the way to Bb  The A below Bb sounds OK. Seems like Bb is to me more noticeable

This also is not criticism of pianoteq as this just could be weird to my 'ear'.

http://hammondeer.tripod.com/Bb.wav

Phil

Last edited by phill2107 (10-11-2014 21:38)

Reply by lowendtheory

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

phill2107 wrote:

To me it is 7 keys all the rest sound fine AND I don't have a grand to compare so these (I say again) may be correct in that range. I am using now D4 clean (doesn't really matter on the Stage). The F sounds great then it starts chromatically at E all the way to Bb  The A below Bb sounds OK. Seems like Bb is to me more noticeable

This also is not criticism of pianoteq as this just could be weird to my 'ear'.

http://hammondeer.tripod.com/Bb.wav

Phil

It sounds like you've found the 'break' between the treble and bass bridge. That transition is quite brutal, at least on the Steinways I've heard. In addition, you mention the contra A sounding OK but not Bb. That is another break from the copper trichords to the copper bichords, where that note had its L-mode tuned down, but not Bb.

Reply by GRB

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Re: Noise in bass with Pianoteq Stage 5.11 at FFF or FF

lowendtheory wrote:
phill2107 wrote:

To me it is 7 keys all the rest sound fine AND I don't have a grand to compare so these (I say again) may be correct in that range. I am using now D4 clean (doesn't really matter on the Stage). The F sounds great then it starts chromatically at E all the way to Bb  The A below Bb sounds OK. Seems like Bb is to me more noticeable

This also is not criticism of pianoteq as this just could be weird to my 'ear'.

http://hammondeer.tripod.com/Bb.wav

Phil

It sounds like you've found the 'break' between the treble and bass bridge. That transition is quite brutal, at least on the Steinways I've heard. In addition, you mention the contra A sounding OK but not Bb. That is another break from the copper trichords to the copper bichords, where that note had its L-mode tuned down, but not Bb.


Yeah, to be honest, his sample sounds very realistic.  But's that's why if I did have Pianoteq software, I would want only the pro version.  Little things like that can end up really bugging you.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway