Dual layer playing - new request ?

I must say, this was also my idea when I bought pianoteq this year, based on my experience with the version 3 which I had demoed in the past... I discovered though that it wasn't any longer so necessary, due to the models getting better and better. I tried to do that anyway, but came to these conclusions: the portion of the envelope that we call the attack isn't confined to the first few milliseconds as I once believed, but lasts like half a second, introducing a phasing problem when the sampled attack crossfades with the sustain in pianoteq. It's almost impossible to phase-align the two, due to the pitch instability at the beginning of the note. I'm not even so sure pianoteq isn't already using a sampled attack to generate the initial noise of the impact of the hammer on the string. But as I said, I think now the models are getting better, and I don't want to do the layering anymore. As for the possibility to create a "fade in" in ptq, I don't think it can be done, at least I wouldn't know how.

I agree... And by the way, the ptq attack isn't bad at all, especially in "middle of the phrase" notes, I find it superior to samples there. On separated notes, samples can have an advantage, but not so much... The sense of interaction between notes in ptq is unrivaled though imo

I have layered Pianoteq with sampled vsi before but prefer layering Pianoteq with a second Pianoteq model.  Since you all are speaking of this subject (but in a technical way over my head), Here is a short improv using two Pianoteq presets.

1 - from the D4
2 - a modified YC5 re-voiced to morph from a quasi upright bass sound to the YC5 in the mid to upper range.
            (Pianoteq now includes similar presets referred to as "bass split piano")

In addition to the above layers, I have included an acoustic bass from Logic 8 Express.  (Also the recording was done with Logic)

By deleting the hammer noise from 2- above in the bass region and careful adjustment of the damper settings,  that preset adds tonal presence to the L8 bass and all of the release sounds that are missing in the L8 bass sample.  I use PnoScan for my key sensors so the key off velocity has a wonderful effect for the finger/fretting of the settings of 2- above.  (I played my old upright bass for 30+years so I know that sound)

I suggest  layering presets from  two separate Pianoteq applications (if your CPU can handle it) will yield much more versatility in your quest.

So, here is a 3 layer single track using these sounds together:

     LD minor improv.mp3

just upload the mp3 in the "other files" section and link to it... I'm curious to listen to the result

is it maybe over the 10MB limit?

yes please, robsogge@tin.it

I also tried to upload something yesterday to the Other Files section and got the same message...

Webmaster ! Please do something about it !

Thanks Guillaume!

It's possible to layer pianoteq with the built-in sampled sound of a keyboard. I tried it a couple of years ago on version 4.0 with my oldish Yamaha P80 that has a short looped sampled sound but a nice (albeit compressed) attack sound.

The only shortcoming is that, to avoid phasing effects mostly due to mistuning, you have to retune the pianoteq preset so that the differently tuned notes fit with the (unchangeable) samples. This requires the pro version of course and can take some time. Problem is, if you want to layer with other presets, you have to retune those also, and that for every instrument you want to layer with your keyboard. So, in the end, this is not very practical and advances in the model have mostly caught up.

As an example, here is a short impro done for the purpose of comparing the attack, layering was done with D4 version 4.0.

What is obvious, is how short and dead the resonance is for the lone P80, but how much better the combined attack and sustain sound with the layering.

To enable comparison with version 5.1, I include the MIDI file since D4 has been much improved since.

Again, advances in the current model have mostly closed the gap, my favorite for a nice attack sound being the Kremsegg C. Bechstein (also my current goto piano )

Layer P80+D4 (v4.0) : http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p..._layer.mp3
P80 alone : http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...0_only.mp3
MIDI file for comparing : http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p..._layer.mid

Thank you for sharing your technique, Lanny!
nice impro, by the way...