Especially in Sound Recording, I have been tweaking all possible parameters trying to get almost the same reverb and the piano clarity in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&...&gl=SG
What the best way to get it right?
Midi file for testing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo7o132prfneb...d.pdf?dl=0
What the best way to get it right?
Nice sound indeed. First of all make sure you calibrated the velocity to your keyboard.
I hear a BA mic position (higher notes more left, lower notes more right) being not stretched too much. Those are really tiny mics. Instead of using reverb you could also use room mics with omni character. Try different mics and characters. Try the same mic position for the mics you position near the cabinet.
I don't know which effect demounting the lid has and if it's possible in Pianoteq. Maybe this makes the sound more open for reflections from the left?
Midi file for testing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo7o132prfneb...d.pdf?dl=0
Hi, what is this link supposed to link to?
Midi file for testing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo7o132prfneb...d.pdf?dl=0Hi, what is this link supposed to link to?
Oh, didn't know it links to the wrong file, here it is the MIDI files for testing on Pianoteq
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhlbp3xzn5j78...9.mid?dl=0
The piano sound is good, but what a predictable and simplistic music...
The piano sound is good, but what a predictable and simplistic music...
+1
The piano sound is good, but what a predictable and simplistic music...
And this is relevant to the topic, how?
Sorry, couldn't resist... didn't mean to sound offensive, was just saying...
As for the sound, I think it might be impossible to exactly replicate a real instrument in a hall. And here in this video I'm under the impression that the space plays a significant role.
proyb wrote:What the best way to get it right?
Nice sound indeed. First of all make sure you calibrated the velocity to your keyboard.
I hear a BA mic position (higher notes more left, lower notes more right) being not stretched too much. Those are really tiny mics. Instead of using reverb you could also use room mics with omni character. Try different mics and characters. Try the same mic position for the mics you position near the cabinet.
I don't know which effect demounting the lid has and if it's possible in Pianoteq. Maybe this makes the sound more open for reflections from the left?
Just dropping by to say: what a great post - I learned a lot from it.
DonSmith wrote:Midi file for testing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo7o132prfneb...d.pdf?dl=0Hi, what is this link supposed to link to?
Oh, didn't know it links to the wrong file, here it is the MIDI files for testing on Pianoteq
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhlbp3xzn5j78...9.mid?dl=0
I thought I'd have a little tweak:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/fxpcorner/index.php
As for the sound, I think it might be impossible to exactly replicate a real instrument in a hall. And here in this video I'm under the impression that the space plays a significant role.
Yes, I also think that's going to be almost impossible. Any reverb algorithm will only model a simplified 'room', so it will never be quite identical. Apart from that, I think the 'Concert Recording' presets actually don't sound that different (and certainly better than 'still not good'), so I would just perhaps slightly tweak one of those (reducing or increasing the amount of reverb and maybe changing the reverb settings like the room size).
The piano sound is good, but what a predictable and simplistic music...
It's out of context, though - that guy is something of a legend, in that he composed the score for most of the Studio Ghibli films. His music is certainly highly derivative, but it has a way of working its way into your soul, especially as it is so well suited to the medium for which it was created. This performance is a bit wooden though, IMO.
Yes, I also think that's going to be almost impossible. Any reverb algorithm will only model a simplified 'room', so it will never be quite identical.
A good convolution reverb is capable of doing a lot more than just modeling a simplified room.
Modellingoptimist wrote:proyb wrote:What the best way to get it right?
Nice sound indeed. First of all make sure you calibrated the velocity to your keyboard.
I hear a BA mic position (higher notes more left, lower notes more right) being not stretched too much. Those are really tiny mics. Instead of using reverb you could also use room mics with omni character. Try different mics and characters. Try the same mic position for the mics you position near the cabinet.
I don't know which effect demounting the lid has and if it's possible in Pianoteq. Maybe this makes the sound more open for reflections from the left?
Just dropping by to say: what a great post - I learned a lot from it.
Thank you ! But there is a lot of speculation in my post. I briefly tried creating reverb just with room mics without success. This seems logical since as far as I know what you see in the Sound Recording panel is no room by itself but just an illustration. You need the reverb effect to give it a room character. The panel just shows the relation between sender and receiver of sound and their distance. Hope you understand what I mean. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't really know how to tweak delay, level compensation and stereo width in the Sound Recording panel. Shouldn't they change automatically depending on the mic position and room type?
I don't really know how to tweak delay, level compensation and stereo width in the Sound Recording panel. Shouldn't they change automatically depending on the mic position and room type?
I am not sure I understand what you mean. The position of the microphone determines the relative recording level and delay. I.e., a mic 3 metres away will receive the sound about 10 milliseconds later, and at a lower level. If reverb is active, the position should determine the amount and delay of the reverb portion inversely, since essentially here the distance from the walls is key.
If you activate delay and level compensation however, you effectively say that the mic's position does not matter with regard to level and delay, i.e. all microphones receive the sound at the same time and at the same level. I am not sure this is also true for reverb (but I guess so).
The stereo width parameter is probably a constant phase shift in the result, but this is not actually explained in the manual. Maybe the people from Modartt can shed a bit of light on this one.
I've tried it too, in the fxp section. I've noticed that the sense of clarity often depends on lack of high frequencies, so I've cut in that range, and I could have done more. Low hammer noise due to distance, abundant hall reverb and some spectral editing. The sound of the hall is difficult to replicate, will try more later tonight, I have to go now
The room sounds pretty warm as well. It seems to be taking out a bit of the highs and a little of the mids. To me it makes it sound like the piano is slightly out of tune or using something that isn't equal temperament. There might also be a bit extra stretch in the tune as well.
The room sounds pretty warm as well. It seems to be taking out a bit of the highs and a little of the mids. To me it makes it sound like the piano is slightly out of tune or using something that isn't equal temperament. There might also be a bit extra stretch in the tune as well.
I hear a rather loose tuniing too... in my fxp I've set the width parameter near 2.00 if I remember correctly
Also decided to try to imitate Hisaishi sound
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...iendsV.mp3
Also decided to try to imitate Hisaishi sound
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...iendsV.mp3
Sounds pretty good to me!
Also decided to try to imitate Hisaishi sound
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...iendsV.mp3
Very nice indeed. Kridlatec, you are very good with presets, great work.
Very good and clear sound.
The name of this Topic should be changed to:
Pianoteq 5.1 still not supernatural.
The MIDI performance maybe have not the same dynamics of the vídeo.
Also decided to try to imitate Hisaishi sound
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...iendsV.mp3
My greetings, Robsogge, Beto, Scorpio! Glad to hear, you liked this attempt) As for myself - always love to try your new presets in Corner, guys!
Beto, indeed it was pleasant surprise, that new D4 version 5.1 became closer to a real one. Modartt made cool work with recent model revoicing. I guess, last PT version copes good with imitating real Steinway. But there is always some space to make the next step
If someone need this fxp, it is in fxpCorner. Still many tweaks needed, but I had no patience to complete work with preset)
Hello All,
Uploaded to the Other Files area is my attempt at adjusting D4's parameters to mimic the Joe Hisaishi Friends video from the initial posting to this thread. I simply downloaded the subject midi file and made zero changes to it, and rendered the sound after having made a few adjustments to D4 in less than 30 seconds. Restated, this is not my midi performance; I only changed a few of D4 preset's variables.
Please comment as to whether you think Pianoteq 5.1's parameters were adjusted in a manner that approaches the sound of the subject video. If you think the sound approximates the video's soundtrack, I will tell you how I changed D4 to accommodate this change. If you don't like the way the rendered midi sounds in comparison to the video, please say so.
Cheers,
Joe
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...riends.mp3
Hello All,
Uploaded to the Other Files area is my attempt at adjusting D4's parameters to mimic the Joe Hisaishi Friends video from the initial posting to this thread. I simply downloaded the subject midi file and made zero changes to it, and rendered the sound after having made a few adjustments to D4 in less than 30 seconds. Restated, this is not my midi performance; I only changed a few of D4 preset's variables.
Please comment as to whether you think Pianoteq 5.1's parameters were adjusted in a manner that approaches the sound of the subject video. If you think the sound approximates the video's soundtrack, I will tell you how I changed D4 to accommodate this change. If you don't like the way the rendered midi sounds in comparison to the video, please say so.
Cheers,
Joe
I think you are very close...
Is now more a matter of performance, as the vídeo of Hisaishi have quite more delicate instances in the performance, giving it more deep feeling.
The MIDI it's a little bit pushed to "machine feeling", like following a music sheet without adding much soul.
If we want to fully compare things, we need the very same performance.
Is now more a matter of performance, as the vídeo of Hisaishi have quite more delicate instances in the performance, giving it more deep feeling.
The MIDI it's a little bit pushed to "machine feeling", like following a music sheet without adding much soul.If we want to fully compare things, we need the very same performance.
+1
Thank guys for the trying, its felt like you did much better than mine. All the rendered MIDI vary depending on the type of songs. No 3rd parties FX was used except entirely on Pianoteq mics.
All songs
https://soundcloud.com/james-lei-1/
Take 1
https://soundcloud.com/james-lei-1/joe-...-friends-1
Take 2
https://soundcloud.com/james-lei-1/joe-hisaishi-friends
I think this thread should be renamed to "I'm still not very good at tweaking Pianoteq"
Modartt should open up a new FXP Corner section for video specific tweaks/requests!
It was worth a try with Pianoteq.
Now I decided to go with Roland HP 504, 506 or 508 for Steinway D sampled, interesting, it has some tweaking functionality like Pianoteq and sounds much better than any digital pianos include Avant Grands I heard for a long time. It definitely give the right tone as recording mode out of the box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6akUiCr-jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Ii5S773aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXPNKQLUbWE
That Roland doesn't sound nearly as good as Pianoteq.
Yikes. After listening to those videos I would think Pianoteq would be worth another try.
jcfelice88keys wrote:Hello All,
Uploaded to the Other Files area is my attempt at adjusting D4's parameters to mimic the Joe Hisaishi Friends video from the initial posting to this thread. I simply downloaded the subject midi file and made zero changes to it, and rendered the sound after having made a few adjustments to D4 in less than 30 seconds. Restated, this is not my midi performance; I only changed a few of D4 preset's variables.
Please comment as to whether you think Pianoteq 5.1's parameters were adjusted in a manner that approaches the sound of the subject video. If you think the sound approximates the video's soundtrack, I will tell you how I changed D4 to accommodate this change. If you don't like the way the rendered midi sounds in comparison to the video, please say so.
Cheers,
Joe
I think you are very close...
Hello all,
I think it would be appropriate at this time to disclose what I did to D4 in response to this thread:
The D4 AB Classical Recording preset was chosen because the AB preset is taken from the side of the piano's case; in the AB microphone setup, the higher notes sound panned left and the lower, longer-stringed notes sound panned right. I specifically did nothing to the microphone placement, and I did not change microphone settings in any way, because the two small microphones in the video were placed along the side of that piano's case.
@ Dynamics:
In the video, one immediately hears the HVAC (ventilation) system's motor and is aware of the audience members talking among themselves, especially before Hisaishi-san begins playing; in this same video, when the performer plays somewhat quietly, the piano's signal is still quite loud. All of this indicates severe compression has been applied to the audio. Therefore, I immediately reduced Pianoteq's Dynamic Range Slider to less than 10dB, and adjusted the volume slider so as not to overload the audio signal.
@ Hammer Hardness:
In the video, the Steinway's compressed audio sounds comparatively bright (but not metallic) to my ears. In response, I slid the first two Hammer Hardness sliders to just below that of the third slider. Immediately, this imparts a sense of brightness to the piano, again without sounding metallic.
@ Reverb:
The reverb in the video sounds "awash"with much more reverb than what two close-up microphones would imply. This suggests that the video was post-processed with reverb plus compression. Without changing AB Concert Recording preset's type of reverb, I simply increased the mix slider to include more of the reverb, and increased the Duration slider to 2.3 seconds.
* * * * * * *
Some people may object to the way I modified D4 AB Concert Recording's preset by compressing the sound, making it brighter and more reverberant sounding. This was simply one person's perception of how the video had sounded, and what measures were required to replicate some of this sound.
Cheers,
Joe
Roland it's a admirable and very professional brand, and usualy have very good products for pianos.
But after pianoteq even the last Roland sampled pianos still sound as samplers somehow. The roland HP 504 to 508 vídeos are fine, but still sound like samplers. I liked the strings and choir from the third vídeo.
By the way, I think Modartt should try to create a string choir for pianoteq.
It was worth a try with Pianoteq.
Now I decided to go with Roland HP 504, 506 or 508 for Steinway D sampled, interesting, it has some tweaking functionality like Pianoteq and sounds much better than any digital pianos include Avant Grands I heard for a long time. It definitely give the right tone as recording mode out of the box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6akUiCr-jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Ii5S773aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXPNKQLUbWE
Some people may object to the way I modified D4 AB Concert Recording's preset by compressing the sound, making it brighter and more reverberant sounding. This was simply one person's perception of how the video had sounded, and what measures were required to replicate some of this sound.
Cheers,
Joe
Thanks, jcfelice88keys! Good lesson for everyone, who tweaks Pianoteq! Sometimes just good ears are needed.
It' a matter of interest: if not a secret, are you a sound-engineer, or something like that?
jcfelice88keys, sound good. Mind to share your presets?
The only part I fee Pianoteq will need to improve Steinway D at lower range for more deep vibrations and higher range for louder tone to make its SING instead of merely an instrument that just good at playing.
All the demo video use default settings which is not optimize for all genres. Not sure if we can get HP508 sound better with sound designer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBmWbBmTFWI
Roland it's a admirable and very professional brand, and usualy have very good products for pianos.
But after pianoteq even the last Roland sampled pianos still sound as samplers somehow. The roland HP 504 to 508 vídeos are fine, but still sound like samplers. I liked the strings and choir from the third vídeo.
By the way, I think Modartt should try to create a string choir for pianoteq.
proyb wrote:It was worth a try with Pianoteq.
Now I decided to go with Roland HP 504, 506 or 508 for Steinway D sampled, interesting, it has some tweaking functionality like Pianoteq and sounds much better than any digital pianos include Avant Grands I heard for a long time. It definitely give the right tone as recording mode out of the box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6akUiCr-jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Ii5S773aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXPNKQLUbWE
I hear a BA mic position (higher notes more left, lower notes more right)
in the AB microphone setup, the higher notes sound panned left and the lower, longer-stringed notes sound panned right.
You're right. Fortunately my ears are OK .
Roland it's a admirable and very professional brand, and usualy have very good products for pianos.
But after pianoteq even the last Roland sampled pianos still sound as samplers somehow. The roland HP 504 to 508 vídeos are fine, but still sound like samplers. I liked the strings and choir from the third vídeo.
By the way, I think Modartt should try to create a string choir for pianoteq.
proyb wrote:It was worth a try with Pianoteq.
Now I decided to go with Roland HP 504, 506 or 508 for Steinway D sampled, interesting, it has some tweaking functionality like Pianoteq and sounds much better than any digital pianos include Avant Grands I heard for a long time. It definitely give the right tone as recording mode out of the box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6akUiCr-jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Ii5S773aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXPNKQLUbWE
I agree,
I have a Roland HP-507 which is very close to the new HP-508, and I think the sound source and technology is the same.
I use Pianoteq thru my HP-507's sound system, and IMHO it is night and day. Indeed the Roland sounds good but Pianoteq is way ahead.
It is obvious on Eric Satie's 3d Gymnopedie: on the 4th measure, the A5 shuts down very fast on the Roland while it remains so alive and resonant on Pianoteq. It's just an exemple.
I can't imagine to come back on my DP without Pianoteq.
I am waiting for a serious company to create a (very) good "furniture type" controler with a solid amplification and speakers system, and a pair of good balanced inputs (not these mini jacks like on actual Roland or Yamaha top ends...)
Not sure if we can get HP508 sound better with sound designer
Not "we", YOU . Good luck!
proyb wrote:Not sure if we can get HP508 sound better with sound designer
Not "we", YOU . Good luck!
Incorrect, I referred to my friends and I, not Pianoteq folk. So that is correct to say we.
Interesting, I'm curious to hear the comparison between HP507 and Pianoteq for sure if you can make a video!
Beto-Music wrote:Roland it's a admirable and very professional brand, and usualy have very good products for pianos.
But after pianoteq even the last Roland sampled pianos still sound as samplers somehow. The roland HP 504 to 508 vídeos are fine, but still sound like samplers. I liked the strings and choir from the third vídeo.
By the way, I think Modartt should try to create a string choir for pianoteq.
proyb wrote:It was worth a try with Pianoteq.
Now I decided to go with Roland HP 504, 506 or 508 for Steinway D sampled, interesting, it has some tweaking functionality like Pianoteq and sounds much better than any digital pianos include Avant Grands I heard for a long time. It definitely give the right tone as recording mode out of the box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6akUiCr-jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Ii5S773aY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXPNKQLUbWEI agree,
I have a Roland HP-507 which is very close to the new HP-508, and I think the sound source and technology is the same.
I use Pianoteq thru my HP-507's sound system, and IMHO it is night and day. Indeed the Roland sounds good but Pianoteq is way ahead.
It is obvious on Eric Satie's 3d Gymnopedie: on the 4th measure, the A5 shuts down very fast on the Roland while it remains so alive and resonant on Pianoteq. It's just an exemple.I can't imagine to come back on my DP without Pianoteq.
I am waiting for a serious company to create a (very) good "furniture type" controler with a solid amplification and speakers system, and a pair of good balanced inputs (not these mini jacks like on actual Roland or Yamaha top ends...)
jcfelice88keys wrote:Some people may object to the way I modified D4 AB Concert Recording's preset by compressing the sound, making it brighter and more reverberant sounding. This was simply one person's perception of how the video had sounded, and what measures were required to replicate some of this sound.
Cheers,
Joe
Thanks, jcfelice88keys! Good lesson for everyone, who tweaks Pianoteq! Sometimes just good ears are needed.
It' a matter of interest: if not a secret, are you a sound-engineer, or something like that?
Hello Kridlatec and others,
Your recognition that, sometimes just good ears are needed, was exactly spot on. Often times, it comes down to sensing what to tweak -- rather than simply tweaking everything -- that can make or break a good-sounding Pianoteq preset.
Yes, I am a career engineer with Bachelor of Science and advanced degrees in Metallurgical- and Materials Engineering, who spent 30 years in the American steel industry. I was born with Absolute Pitch / Perfect Pitch, and wanted to become a world-class concert pianist; alas, I made a career decision to go into the engineering field. Ironically, but years later, the departmental chairpersons of two different musical colleges have confided with me that I was one of the few people they knew who could have made a successful career in musical performance.
In the meantime, since retiring from Big Steel, I have focused my life on tuning pianos, teaching piano, creating musical demos for Pianoteq and several pipe organ sample libraries, and basically sound designing various real acoustic instruments. In addition, I also consult with various steel companies to diagnose production- and engineering problems and to make recommendations to fix them.
Cheers,
Joe
Finally, found a song after 5 years of search.
https://soundcloud.com/james-lei-1/you-and-me
Will test on Sampletekk Black Grand MKII (Revamped version from Black Grand) if time is on my side.
Interesting, I'm curious to hear the comparison between HP507 and Pianoteq for sure if you can make a video!
Yes, maybe one of these days...
But it is time consuming
Thibaudet performed in one of the live concert which invoked with full of emotions unlike I have seen in any other pianists, unfortunately, the video was removed in Youtube last year and there's no other similar video. Luckily, NPR has a record.
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlaye...=124117813
From The Chopin I Love album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l4aAFD...e=youtu.be
It seems to be good
Nice comparison. Is it the room or micing that creates part of the difference that we hear? Did you use a default Pianoteq preset for this, or was this recorded with an fxp?