Topic by Zwerg

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  • Zwerg
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Topic: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

When I learn new pieces I use notes, my ears and sometimes I view midi files in Sythesia. Sometimes a midi helps me for a better understanding the piece and its timing.

Unfortunately many midi files are created by humans via a software note by note. The notes there are a perfect copy of the rough quantized notes in time and amplitude, it often sounds like a computer.

There are midis played to see "how a human good player interprets a piece" and not a computer translation of quantized notes?

I would like to analyze midi to see the difference between a real good played piece and what says the quantized note language in comparison.

I know notes can be only an approximation what the composer wanted to tell us and the special sound comes from the heart and the soull of the pianist.

There are so many good pianists with a lot of recordings, all of them playing so nice, but different. So many times when I hear different professionals playing the same piece, person A differs from B, C..... it's like each person bring out his personality in his playing, this makes music so interesting.

Sometimes a record listen for me like:
The pianist "didn't like the piece", but nethertheless he played it technical 100% correct.
Or sound like the pianist "loves the pieces very much" and plays it with full skills and emotions.

I think, many professionals don't care much for digital pianos and digitized recording methods, they live still in their world of real pianos and microphone recordings with focus on their live and career (that's ok for me).

But why? When a professional publish an excellent midi of his playing skill, are they scared to show the world their playing secrets or scared being analyzed in detail by other professionells? Or is the world not interested in such playing details at all?

Sometimes I wonder, classic experts discuss for hours the recordings of person A,B,C.... playing the same piece, but they seldom start to analyze the differences with analytic methodes like engineers would do that, they also don't claim midis. For me all this looks like a secretiveness or I am thinking wrong?

Ralf

Reply by delt

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Re: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

I agree, it's always a good thing to have a MIDI file that's an "actual" capture of the player's performance, or at least done in a way that it is "humanized" with some subtle randomization of timing and velocity.

For learning pieces in synthesia, it's often sufficient to load the file in a midi editor, say, rosegarden, and set the velocities to a reasonable level, ie. around 64. If the left hand has its own track, maybe a bit less for the left hand, around 56 is usually good. Maybe it's my imagination, but playing such a file in Pianoteq sounds more "human" even if all the velocities are the same, compared to playing the file through a sampled/soundfont based softsynth. It's probably because Pianoteq takes into consideration already vibrating strings when hitting the same notes again, so they don't sound exactly the same.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
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Reply by Kridlatec

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Re: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

You may find many midi-files played in a real time by good pianists (for example, Yulianna Avdeeva, who won Chopin Competition 2010) here.
The most interesting for me to watch in PT how they use pedals.

Last edited by Kridlatec (24-06-2014 08:00)
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Reply by kalessin

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Re: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

Playing music is like reading. You can 'read' (like a computer), or you can... read the text.

Last edited by kalessin (24-06-2014 11:11)
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Reply by rjpianist

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Re: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

I have been recording some stuff with MIDI recently to see what it's like. So far, I think the results are quite good!

Unfortunately I only have a couple of things recorded and I'm not sure I am ready to share the MIDI files yet.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

rjpianist's Website

Reply by mabry

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Re: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

Zwerg wrote:

When a professional publish an excellent midi of his playing skill, are they scared to show the world their playing secrets or scared being analyzed in detail by other professionells? Or is the world not interested in such playing details at all?

I have software that can, in theory, produce a midi file from any performance on CD. I have never tried it before. Is there something you might be interested in? Let me know, I can give it a shot.

Reply by Zwerg

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Re: Midi files from real played pieces searched for

@Kridlatec,

thank you for the link. Now I can see when a player did an audible error how it looks in Synthesia.


@mabry,

Software produce midis from a CD audio recording?.

I tried software which is producing notes based on a midi file. This software give out often funny results. When I transfer my playings automatically to notes, the notes having a lot of 1/16 and 1/32 which I can't find in the original. Reasons are my low skills, only when I do less errors in timing, the program works better.

When I can't play the piece ==> the software is no help.
When I know to play the piece ==> I don't need the software.

Tried piano roll editors, basic functions missing like moving notes and passages by a defined time, ..... These software make me piano to dislike so I better leave them. I like Synthesia, it's ok for viewing songs, nice to see the falling notes and helpful to see the structure of a piece. Self playing with Synthesia, I tried - no success - slowly, unfortunately I can't see falling notes or classic notes when I play. For me such software is not a method to learn playing, but helpful for understanding.


@rjpianist

I think many people would like too hear files from a professional player who is being interested in PT too. Place a link whenever you feel like.
Would be interesting to switch between the different PT instruments and view it in Synthesia. Interested in comments about how the piece was played and background info about the playing style of a piece. Suggestion, also add played midis to your book.

@all
It's one year ago that I've pressed first time a piano key - I did a lot of things in my life, but learning piano playing surprised me. Makes much fun.

Ralf
(Hardware Electronic Engineering for Measurement, Test Equipment, Audio)

Last edited by Zwerg (25-06-2014 23:23)