Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Rohade wrote:

Rachel, I loved your presets, are they based on your own Steinway?.

I also liked how you remarked the practical use of them, using the big reverb to practice clarity and the dry one for legato. I find very hard to practice with samples as its so easy to sound good, Pianoteq on the other hand is most similar on difficulty to a real acoustic but what you did goes beyond that, doing presets in order to practice a particular technique, pure gold. Thanks a lot for that.

Tone wise your presets are unique as well, very bright and powerful. Crystal clear.

Btw Rachel you mentioned how other senses helped to perceive the piano as more real, in my case the vibration is needed and Im not alone, some user on the forums, Ill look for the thread to paste it here later, found a solution. Some thing that he attaches to the Piano that makes it vibrate without altering the sound.

Thanks, Rohade. I played around with my presets more last night and kind of split the difference to get something between the "Classical Recording AB" preset and my own "Medium". I think I took too much brilliance away. I'm trying to get more of the NY Steinway warmth, but I went too far at first. I have to be careful to *not* try to mimic my own piano because mine is an L sized grand and is unusually mellow sounding. Shouldn't try to make a concert grand model sound as mellow (not to say "dull").

What's this about vibrating a digital piano? Mine vibrates quite a bit when I use the onboard audio, but when I use PianoTeq with headphones, obviously there is no vibration. It does feel weird. Curious about what you mean.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Just FYI for anyone following this thread. Just added another try at a D4 preset. Practiced with this one for a long time quite happily tonight. Interested in comments!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Awesome playing, Rachel!!

Does your P-140 have 3 sensors per key or just 2? How does it respond to fast trills and single-note repeats?

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

EvilDragon wrote:

RME goes down to 2 ms, for example.


But anyways, that's not the whole latency (round-trip). It's just ASIO input/output buffer latency.


You got me curious.
I dialed the minimum latency in Pianoteq (i guess it's 1,5ms), and so far no problem with my integrated audio chipset.
I guess it has more to do with the main CPU than with the soundcard (i know there is the so called "hardware acceleration", but i wonder what part it plays in the result).

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

rjpianist wrote:

Just FYI for anyone following this thread. Just added another try at a D4 preset. Practiced with this one for a long time quite happily tonight. Interested in comments!

...this .fxp is close to (my idea of) a perfect sonority

thank you a lot for sharing your tweaks with us

Last edited by imyself (13-06-2014 08:21)

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

vjau wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:

RME goes down to 2 ms, for example.


But anyways, that's not the whole latency (round-trip). It's just ASIO input/output buffer latency.


You got me curious.
I dialed the minimum latency in Pianoteq (i guess it's 1,5ms), and so far no problem with my integrated audio chipset.
I guess it has more to do with the main CPU than with the soundcard (i know there is the so called "hardware acceleration", but i wonder what part it plays in the result).

And now try measuring the round-trip latency of your system and you'll see it's nowhere near 1.5 ms.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr12/a...s-0412.htm

Hard work and guts!

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Delt, it's 2 sensors. I do notice a difference from my grand in the repetition, but nothing that speeding up the fingers a bit can't cure. It's actually good for practicing because it forces you to play super clean. Flabby fingers won't cut it. It's better than an upright because the keys spring up much quicker.

imyself, I know you are a long time tweaker of PianoTeq, so it's really gratifying to hear how much you like my preset. Thank you!

You know, I don't have the very best hearing, but I am trying to get a sound that I love. This latest fxp is very close if not exactly what I am trying to get.

I love PianoTeq for allowing me the freedom to explore and find a sound that really helps me express in the way I want. It's a revolution for me. I know the classical purists will take a long time to come around, but I do believe I am sold on using it as a tool to create recordings. Obviously there is still something very special about playing an acoustic grand "live" that no digital setup can duplicate, but for producing a recording, it is really something special.

I am super excited to be on board with it and to see how much farther it can go. I think if I can upgrade next year to a VPC-1 and a better computer with a fancy soundcard, I will be in a position to make some recordings that could make a big impression on skeptics.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

rjpianist wrote:

imyself, I know you are a long time tweaker of PianoTeq, so it's really gratifying to hear how much you like my preset. Thank you!

You know, I don't have the very best hearing, but I am trying to get a sound that I love. This latest fxp is very close if not exactly what I am trying to get.

I love PianoTeq for allowing me the freedom to explore and find a sound that really helps me express in the way I want. It's a revolution for me. I know the classical purists will take a long time to come around, but I do believe I am sold on using it as a tool to create recordings. Obviously there is still something very special about playing an acoustic grand "live" that no digital setup can duplicate, but for producing a recording, it is really something special.

I am super excited to be on board with it and to see how much farther it can go. I think if I can upgrade next year to a VPC-1 and a better computer with a fancy soundcard, I will be in a position to make some recordings that could make a big impression on skeptics.

Hi rjpianist,

...Thank you again to You to have created "THE" almost perfect piano sound  that allows me (us) to take a lot more pleasure with Pianoteq.

you say you do not have a so good "ear", but you are able to transcribe/create in quick record time a piano sound exceptional ... (while I loin, in vain, to find the right piano sound from so long...)
in addition to your countless musical qualities (I check it out on your site and your videos), you are rather modest.

the essential is, I think, that you take great pleasure to use this wonderfull musical toy Pianoteq ... and I'm sure you'll definitely have more fun when you will possess a VPC1.

as i said previously: you have the chance to own a real Steinway, and despite all the qualities that may have Pianoteq... to own a real grand piano at home is irreplaceable.

Permettez moi,Rachel, de vous passer le bonsoir de Paris
Hervé

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Merci, Hervé!

Yes, I am very fortunate to have my Steinway. It has served me well for the past 25 years of playing and teaching. I do think PianoTeq will be how I record things to share, since I can get better sound with it by far, but I do love playing my "real" piano.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Hi Rachel.
Sorry to interrupt.

I believe the future of digital pianos will be a soundboard tranducer activated, to spread the sound in similar way to a real acoustic grand piano.

You can add a retrofit system to your real piano to make it able to send MIDI signal, and play pianoteq by the real action of your Steinway, for example.


About piano lessons methods, I have one question, if you allow me.
Do you think a good ears can trick thinks up and difficult sheet Reading during lessons? Or even a associationm of good ear and memorize the music?

Perhaps a interesting teaching method for sheet Reading would be a digital one, with aleatory variations to avoid such cheating.
Just va idea.  What do you think about?

Last edited by Beto-Music (14-06-2014 01:35)

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Beto-Music wrote:

I believe the future of digital pianos will be a soundboard tranducer activated, to spread the sound in similar way to a real acoustic grand piano.

Kawai and Yamaha and Roland already do stuff like that. The techniques are essentially spatial arrangements of several speakers (Kawai, Roland, Yamaha) and optional wooden transducers for the bass (Kawai, Yamaha). Roland and Yamaha also mimic the general form of a (baby) grand in their top models, bringing the spatial distribution of sound waves even closer to the real thing.

One dream combination IMHO would be a Kawai CA-95 or CS-10 with Pianoteq providing the actual sound. Kawai's built-in sound generators are quite superb already, but of course don't come even close to Pianoteq in terms of flexibility. Also, I love my Blüthner.

Last edited by kalessin (15-06-2014 10:17)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Yes, it will be super interesting to see where the technology leads. For now I am happy to work with headphones. For my purposes, the headphones match my needs! I'm going shopping today for a new pair. Whee!

Beto, I do think an ideal sight-reading system would consist of randomly-generated, non-tonal exercises on a computer connected to a midi keyboard. I've been meaning to research whether there is such a thing already.

I consider sight-reading and music-learning to be two different skills. Some people are better at one than the other. Ideally, you would be able to both sight-read accurately AND use your ear and memorization ability to learn pieces and get away from having to look at the music quickly.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

rjpianist wrote:

Beto, I do think an ideal sight-reading system would consist of randomly-generated, non-tonal exercises on a computer connected to a midi keyboard. I've been meaning to research whether there is such a thing already.

Interesting... what exactly do you mean by randomly generated and non-tonal? Hopefully it would apply to people like me who don't have absolute pitch :3 ....or does the "non-tonal" part restrict your idea only to rhythmic patterns?

rjpianist wrote:

I consider sight-reading and music-learning to be two different skills. Some people are better at one than the other. Ideally, you would be able to both sight-read accurately AND use your ear and memorization ability to learn pieces and get away from having to look at the music quickly.

Agreed. Just like a very good storyteller could theoretically be illiterate. Or someone who has a hard time expressing himself verbally, could be able to write flawlessly in 10 languages.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Delt, by non-tonal I mean that it wouldn't follow expected melodic and harmonic patterns and formulas that people might be able to guess at. It would be more random in sound, kind of like avant-garde modern music.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Hi Rachel,

rjpianist wrote:

Delt, by non-tonal I mean that it wouldn't follow expected melodic and harmonic patterns and formulas that people might be able to guess at. It would be more random in sound, kind of like avant-garde modern music.

interesting. Disclaimer: I am a lousy sight-reader. I have gotten a bit better over time, but I still have problems recognising chords, especially in differing keys. What has helped be, however, was looking at the structure of the piece, i.e., recognising patterns and repetitions. Of course being able to just be presented a few bars and play them without thinking would be a huge asset.

Currently I can do this only for rather simple pieces; as I said, I'm still rubbish at sight-reading. If anyone comes across a training software to practice sight-reading and accompaniment patterns (preferably in conjunction with a MIDI keyboard), I might be interested.

Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Lovely presets, Rachel. Thank you

Mac Pro Quad-Core (2009) 2.66 GHz | 16GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3|MOTU Midi Timepiece AV | Mac OS X 10.9.5 | Cubase 9.0.30.266| and others ;)

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

About the piano sound D4_NY_-_Moderate:

there is absolutly nothing to tweak in this perfect .fxp ...
it may be the only thing to do is just to editing a new velocity curve for VPC1 users... it's done.

(PS:Please,Rachel, accept my apology)

Last edited by imyself (16-06-2014 09:50)

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Oh, this D4 NY Moderate fxp with imyself's velocity curve is absolutely sublime with my kawai es100.

I'm on PT5 Stage at the moment, definitely upgrading to Standard soon. Thank you for the fantastic presets!

And I have to agree that I've been holding out on going fully digital until PT5. But the time has come when both fantastic sound quality and great playability are available in the same software.

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

No apology, imyself! This is all so fun! I definitely want people to use my presets as a point of departure for their own experimentation. I am still tweaking away. I think I'll have another new one tonight, just a tad brighter, but with more hammer hardness changes and a bit less reverb. Maybe I'll do one with a whole lot of reverb too for contrast.

Practicing with my new headphones last night was awesome!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Hi,
can someone tell me what is this music:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...derate.mp3

thank you

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

imyself wrote:

Hi,
can someone tell me what is this music:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...derate.mp3

thank you

Chopin Ballade no 1 in G minor op.23

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Gilles wrote:

Chopin Ballade no 1 in G minor op.23

Thank you!:D

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Yep, I recorded the whole piece with a sample-based software piano before I discovered PianoTeq. I'll be posting it to SoundCloud soon.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

I just put up another fxp. I keep backing off from the radical changes in my first attempts. But, I am making more fine adjustments to get the sound I really like. I'm having too much fun... it's like designing and implementing the piano of my dreams but just a whole lot cheaper.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

Still working on getting the ideal preset. But, I want to wait before posting another one until it's something I've lived with for a while and still like. All the ones I've been posting never sound as good to me the next day!

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

rjpianist wrote:
Rohade wrote:

Btw Rachel you mentioned how other senses helped to perceive the piano as more real, in my case the vibration is needed and I'm not alone, some user on the forums, Ill look for the thread to paste it here later, found a solution. Some thing that he attaches to the Piano that makes it vibrate without altering the sound.

What's this about vibrating a digital piano? Mine vibrates quite a bit when I use the onboard audio, but when I use PianoTeq with headphones, obviously there is no vibration. It does feel weird. Curious about what you mean.

Vibration sense, particularly for low-frequency sound, is independent of hearing, but works in parallel to enhance both realism and pleasure concerning performance on the Grand Piano.  Also on PianoTeq, if you set it up right.  For ideas, see these threads in which I have posted my own successful solution.

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=2343

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=2075

Nice meeting you on-line, and on your Website!

Re: PianoTeq is amazing

OrganoPleno wrote:

Vibration sense, particularly for low-frequency sound, is independent of hearing, but works in parallel to enhance both realism and pleasure concerning performance on the Grand Piano.  Also on PianoTeq, if you set it up right.  For ideas, see these threads in which I have posted my own successful solution.

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=2343

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=2075

Nice meeting you on-line, and on your Website!

Thanks so much! Nice meeting you too.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com