Kremsegg vs KIViR

As I was just writing elsewhere that newer users who speak up were great for all of us:) I am a bit shy to answer - but the differences are huge. The old Kivir pianos like you know them are indeed good, but there is a whole world (for me) between them and the outstanding Kremsegg edition. You can (or did^^) read about the background of the Schloss Kremsegg instruments on the site, and while the Schoffstoss and Schantz and Walter all others could surely be brought "up to date" they belong to an earlier period of pianoteq, lacking much in the sound quality. Did you demo the Kremseggs? I would - from my point of view - say if you got the money, you cannot do anything wrong if you like those wonderful old instruments, buy them . A totally new pianoteq play-feeling, the Kivirs sound totally out of date (though I still like them, I rarely touch them since we have Kremsegg). Hope that helps a bit. Play them, so lovely

Don't worry, the KIViR instruments will be upgraded to reach a level of quality and naturalism of the the other recente models (like K2 and Kremsegg).

Modartt it's working on that.

Compelling reason? How about: they all sound like totally different instruments?

KIViR piano models are somewhat older in general compared to Kremsegg.

It will take some months to upgrade KIViR, I believe.
Hope Kremsegg salles go well and help to Modartt invest in the creation of new instruments.

There are several differences.

The fist is in purpose : Kremsegg collection is intended as a commercial add-on of some historical late 18th - 19th century grand pianos.

KIViR is intended as a non-commercial "restauration" of historical instrument, with "historical" being more loosely defined than in Kremsegg collection : some instruments are way older (early 18th century, or modern reproduction of even older instruments), while others (the grand pianos) are even more recent (late 19th century and even 20th).
KIViR instruments are virtually "donated" to PTQ by their owners, while Kremsegg collection is issued from a partnership between an institution and PTQ.

This is regarding their status. But, as the OP said, besides their commercial status, the two ideas seems quite similar. What is the "compelling reason" of having BOTH KIViR and Kremsegg ?

Why, quite obviously, because each modeled piano is different from one another !
Even if, with Kremsegg, we have an Erard, a Pleyel and a Bechstein as we do in KIViR, they're far from being the same instrument.
In some cases, as in Pleyel's and Erard's case, the time span between the Kremsegg versions (respectively 1835 for Pleyel and 1849 for Erard) and the KIViR versions (1926 and 1922) is so conspicuous that one can hardly compare them, even though being from the same manufacturer. They are as different as a Fazioli and a Steinway could be.

For example, I do personally love the 1922 Erard sound, even if it is marred by all the primitiveness of a PTQ 2.0 modeling (I can only dream about how it will sound with the new update. I guess it'll become my main piano !), while the 1849 one, though having a purer sound, is less appealing to my ears.

Saying that KIViR instruments (or, at least, KIViR grand pianos) have no "compelling reason" to exist on PTQ - and to be updated - since we already have the Kremsegg pianos would be like saying that - if a Mr. X would want to "donate" the model of an old Steinway American D from the 1930, or of a Bluethner from the 1950 - PTQ should refuse to model it because there already is the D4 and the Grand Bluethner !

Hi,

I was confused in the beginning, too. It looks at first like there are duplicate instruments, but there are really none.

KIViR includes an 1922 Erard, 1926 Pleyel, and an 1896 Bechstein. The Erard in Kremsegg 1 is an 1849 model, so it is much older. Likewise, Kremsegg 2 includes an 1899 Bechstein and and 1835 Pleyel. So the only instruments which could be similar are the two Bechsteins. Which they are not, they sound completely different. How much of this is due to KIViR currenty essentially being PTQ2 instruments, I cannot say.

Apart from that KIViR includes several piano predecessors as well as the Yamaha CP-80 electric grand.