Topic: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

I would be grateful if someone would direct me to this forum's discussion threads on keyboard technology.

What 88 key digital keyboard types would limit Pianoteq's capability?

Ian

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

Well, SMF, the 'standard MIDI file', limits Pianoteq's existing capabilities plenty, but you're out of luck finding any discussion of that here. Numb acceptance of the manufacturers' reluctance to produce anything better is the reason.... for what can discussion do about that situation?

A one-time contributor here with moniker 'sebion' (which AFAIK he uses elsewhere) went private with investigating the commercial chances of turning upright actions into cash. On the electrical engineering side his chances are excellent; his problem will be getting a supply of actions. But his rationale is perfect: why bother with *simulating* a mechanical action? Use a real one!

Pity about the action-supply problem. And that's why Pianoteq is valuable. Its sims are as practical as it can get for users, which keeps everyone here pretty much occupied with exploiting what it does offer, and quite often suggesting improvements, along with noting bugs and felt limitations. Big discussions nope.

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

I hope you forgive me for the subject change.

This vídeo it's interesting, as it place a virtual keyboard above and aligned with the real keyboard, to display very well the played notes whille also displaying the hand technic.

Wise approach :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBDG-zZMG7o


Is this vídeo from some pianoteq forum member ?

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

Lot2learn has posted here at least once, maybe in the Creations sticky.

Meantime sebion's Home Page is (maybe was) http://sebion.wordpress.com/. The vid of Fur Elise, he's visibly using Pianoteq, & fair to assume he's still doing so whenever the rest of the rig he uses there is the same. With the Jesu, joy of Man's Desiring vid, he's using what he calls a modern upright action. And during one of the Comments at end of one of the pages was a simple announcement of a French piano manufacturer's email, an invitation to chat good as (colemann.com). Perhaps that was fellow-feeling, wrung out of the guy despite seeing seb as a competitor, and maybe enough fellow-feeling to gift an action. One action. And it'd be nice to think seb's now inside the company, working at his intentions from there.

Reverting to topic, the most recent discussions concerning a specific keyboard were of the Kawai VPC1; but mostly slanted from an already-persuaded/committed-to-buy perspective, on account mostly of affordability, and complaining about delayed supplies.

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

I thinking specifically about key velocity (not aftertouch) issues.  In the absence of manufacturer's data am I correct that few keyboards can detect more than eight velocity levels rather than the 128 levels that midi can accept?

If manufacturer's data IS available on this then I would be grateful for some links.

Ian

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

You can use pianoteq velocity graphic to test a given MIDI keyboard.
The velocity graphic have a red bar that hines when you hit a key. It shines in the graphic pointing indicating the midi value.

You can start hit a key note very slowy and gradually increasing the velocity, and see how de graphic's red line (velocity indicator) responds.

Beemer wrote:

I thinking specifically about key velocity (not aftertouch) issues.  In the absence of manufacturer's data am I correct that few keyboards can detect more than eight velocity levels rather than the 128 levels that midi can accept?

If manufacturer's data IS available on this then I would be grateful for some links.

Ian

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

Beto surely means 'light blue', not 'red'.

And yesterday I'd have confidently said you should look up the User Manual for a particular keyboard, then find the Specifications page, expecting that would tell you what you want. Today I tried this for the Kawai VPC1, and I now know different. Not ONE mention of any MIDI value on any page.

So try doing the above and best of luck.

But if you don't strike lucky, and need to know, Beto's advice is very good. Take your laptop, headphones and USB cable to your keyboard shop, and try the keyboard of interest. Nothing like certainty.

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

Thanks to you both for the replies.   I have the Pianoteq demo so I will try the utility.

I have two keyboards.   The first is a Kurzweil K1200 Pro 88 key semi-weighted master keyboard/synth.  Yesterday when scouring the manual I found that it has only eight velocity levels to make any velocity map. 

My second keyboard is a recently purchased Yamaha Tyros 5 76 key also semi- weighted.  As I have just spent just under £4000 on the Yamaha I do not have £1000 spare to buy the desirable Kawai VPC1.

Now IF the VCP1 has only eight or sixteen velocity steps to make a velocity map then despite the Kurzweil being only semi-weighted I would buy Pianoteq 4.5 American Grand and try to make do.

I do have a Knight K10 acoustic piano so do appreciate the advantage of fully weighted acoustic action.

Anyone here using Pianoteq with a semi-weighted keyboard?

Ian

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

That Yamaha is certainly not to be despised, for what it is, extending of course into the reasons for which you bought it. Detailed specifics on its MIDI output, the crux of your enquiry, aren't forthcoming - best I could find was "MIDI Recording: SMF type 0" (almost verbatim), to be contrasted with "MIDI Playback: types 0 and 1". Your keyboard output is basic MIDI in other words.

Not specific enough. So try Beto's idea using your demo. From memory the restrictions are 1 note each octave (or 2?), plus function stops each 20 minutes. So choose a different note and hike up thru the octaves testing the output. Exhaustive tests on just a couple of octaves and spot-checks elsewhere should tell the story.

I've watched vids of performance at the keyboard, and for my purps the touch would be terrible. Keys seem simply to be sprung. OTOH under my roof are 3 Kawais, getting cheaper all the time, better all the time, and not sure I'd recommend any. The VPC1 has been stripped down to bare MIDI (could NOT get further removed from your Yamaha), and for all the Manual's coyness about the MIDI values, the "VPC1 Editor" software which comes with the piano comes with tailored response curves, plus ability to tailor for oneself, that can only take place in a *complete* MIDI 'space'. Identical to the Pianoteq utility in fact.

My advice is wait for the VPC2. Should be better, if one ever emerges.

Re: Discussion regarding keyboard technology?

Beto-Music wrote:

You can use pianoteq velocity graphic to test a given MIDI keyboard.
The velocity graphic have a red bar that hines when you hit a key. It shines in the graphic pointing indicating the midi value.

This PT feature has been really helpful for me to evaluate the condition of a Yamaha KX 88 I've recently done some work on to bring back to a playable state.  The velocity response is not perfect all across the keyboard, but it plays best on PT.  The little bit of unevenness that is there is alot more noticeable when velocity switching is going on.