Topic by Mogelvieh

  • Avatar
  • Mogelvieh
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 12-11-2013
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Audio interface 3 ms latency

hi pianoteq users

I'm looking for an audio interface (usb) with a latency at most of lets say 3 ms.

With my line 6 toneport ux 2 i'm getting a latency of 15 ms with the smallest buffer size(128) and highest sample rate  witch for my taste is to long (for piano).

Even with asio4all at a buffer size of 96 there are no scratches or other noise but the latency ist still to high.

My operating system is windows 7 ultimate 64 bit and the audio hosts I'm using are cockos Reaper or Ableton live.

cpu power is not the problem. My Compuer is running an intel core i7 - 4702MQ.

Is there anyone that can recommend an audio interface with an extremely good driver for a latency around 3 ms at a buffer size around 128  that works well with pianoteq?

thanks in advance.
greetings from Germany

Reply by Irmin

  • Avatar
  • Irmin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Second star to the right
  • Registered: 20-04-2012
  • Posts: 97

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

I'm using a Focusrite scarlett 2i2. 2.7ms on my macbook air and also on pc running windows 8.1. Good drivers no problems

Irmin

Reply by Mogelvieh

  • Avatar
  • Mogelvieh
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 12-11-2013
  • Posts: 4

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Irmin wrote:

I'm using a Focusrite scarlett 2i2. 2.7ms on my macbook air and also on pc running windows 8.1. Good drivers no problems

Irmin

is the latency on windows 8 the same as on the macbook?
and whats the buffer size you are using?

do you use the driver from focusrite? or asio4all?

thanks for the fast reply

Last edited by Mogelvieh (12-11-2013 20:00)

Reply by Irmin

  • Avatar
  • Irmin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Second star to the right
  • Registered: 20-04-2012
  • Posts: 97

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Actually lower on the pc, its a 3770k cpu so its much faster then the mac. on the mac I use a buffer of 128 at 48000 Hz. Not in front of the PC at the moment, but a buffer of 96@48000 Hz is close to 2ms as far as I can remember

What sample rate are you using as 15ms sounds very high for a 128 buffer?

Reply by Irmin

  • Avatar
  • Irmin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Second star to the right
  • Registered: 20-04-2012
  • Posts: 97

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Just tried the mac with a buffer of 128 and sample rate of 96000 Hz. That's 1.3 ms. Works just fine

(using the focusrite driver)

Last edited by Irmin (12-11-2013 20:23)

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Just remember that that's only the reported soundcard processing latency, not round-trip latency from input to output...

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Luc Henrion

  • Avatar
  • Luc Henrion
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-05-2007
  • Posts: 932

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

I confirm that the drivers from Focusrite are very good: I just changed my 18i6 for a 18i20 and I'm really, really happy with it. It rocks.
BTW, the AD & DA converters and the preamps are also very, very good ! Actually, they are really amazing, above my Tascam US-2000 and certainly on a par with my MOTU 896.

Luc Henrion's Website

Reply by Mogelvieh

  • Avatar
  • Mogelvieh
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 12-11-2013
  • Posts: 4

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Irmin wrote:

What sample rate are you using as 15 ms sounds very high for a 128 buffer?

the samplerate is 44100. At a higher samplerate with a buffersize of 128 there is just noise( cpu is never higher than 20 %) .

with asio4all i can go down to a buffersize of 86 with out getting noises...but i have heard that the latency displayed is just a theoretical number that won't be the real latency.
a higher samplerate than 48000 (i belive) is not available in my settings for asio4all.

EvilDragon wrote:

Just remember that that's only the reported soundcard processing latency, not round-trip latency from input to output...

what exactly does this mean?

how i can i find out whats the real latency is?

by the way I'm using reaper and ableton live

thanks for the help guys!!

Reply by Temperament

  • Avatar
  • Temperament
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 12-11-2012
  • Posts: 310

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Luc Henrion wrote:

I confirm that the drivers from Focusrite are very good: I just changed my 18i6 for a 18i20 and I'm really, really happy with it. It rocks.
BTW, the AD & DA converters and the preamps are also very, very good ! Actually, they are really amazing, above my Tascam US-2000 and certainly on a par with my MOTU 896.

I have only the FR 6i6 - it is a sibling of the 18i6, and I would expect this may have a similar sound quality as the 18i6. The drivers, the MixControl application is very good indeed.

But playback sound quality is definitively not on par with my other audio interface (EMU0404USB - the specification is also somewhat better of the EMU.)

Possibly is there a quality difference between the specific models within the Scarlett model range towards the end of it,  some of the specifications are differing (only slightly). How big was quality-wise the improvement of Your upgrade from 18i6 to 18i20, Luc?

Reply by Luc Henrion

  • Avatar
  • Luc Henrion
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-05-2007
  • Posts: 932

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

This is a difficult question, since, obviously, I sold my 18i6 before I bought the new one... but I would say it's in the same league. Only slightly better. I'm amazed by your judgment however, are you sure you don't have a problem with your 6i6 ? I had to return my 18i6 because the monitor output was faulty (not the headphones output, strange enough!). BTW, those beasts are very sensitive to PSU's interferences, the 18i20 less so...

Luc Henrion's Website

Reply by Temperament

  • Avatar
  • Temperament
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 12-11-2012
  • Posts: 310

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

There is a definitive quality leap between the Scarlett and the EMU 0404USB. I have read similar opinions.

The Scarlett has the better SW, but the EMU still has the better sound output (and DA converter - by the way the same as in the the Audioengine D1 DAC, which I don't have or know otherwise.)

Focusrite have now their Forte for simple playback/recording, which should have top sound quality (but only one analogue I/O and no digital I/O). So I am considering to upgrade to the RME Babyface (or perhaps to the Forte), because I found that the sound out of the audio interface is very significantly different, if you listen through very good headphones or monitors.

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

Mogelvieh wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:

Just remember that that's only the reported soundcard processing latency, not round-trip latency from input to output...

what exactly does this mean?

how i can i find out whats the real latency is?


Please read this article:

http://www.presonus.com/community/Learn...io-Latency

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Mogelvieh

  • Avatar
  • Mogelvieh
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 12-11-2013
  • Posts: 4

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

EvilDragon wrote:

Please read this article:

http://www.presonus.com/community/Learn...io-Latency

thnaks EvilDragon this information was really helpful.
now i understand why "8 ms" feel so slow

do you know if the solution of personus does work for midi aswell?


are there similar approaches to overcome the "usb latency" in other audio interfaces?

what in your opinion is the best solution to get the lowest latency possible?( for playing virtual instruments like pianoteq)

thanks.. your help is great

Reply by EvilDragon

  • Avatar
  • EvilDragon
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Croatia
  • Registered: 27-06-2008
  • Posts: 3,994

Re: Audio interface 3 ms latency

No, MIDI is handled by the USB controller, so that's ultimately OS.

There will always be USB latency, if you use USB. If you use Firewire or Thunderbolt, that's smaller latency, but Firewire is on the verge of extinction and Thunderbolt is far too expensive (and there are very few audio interfaces utilizing it).

In any case, <=10 ms of round-trip latency is perfectly fine and usable. Whatever soundcard you use to get this result is good enough. Presonus, Focusrite, RME, Echo Audio are some manufacturers that have extremely solid ASIO drivers for low latency - RME being the best.

Last edited by EvilDragon (14-11-2013 23:53)
Hard work and guts!