Topic by Rohade

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Topic: Pianoteq to study Piano?

Have you thought of an fxp to mimic or even exagerate the characteristics of the acoustic piano that must be avoided with a proper technique?.

For example, a big problem of the sampled pianos is the tone, no matter what you do, you hit the key from above, you hit it harsh and wrong and you will still get a beautiful sound, a very beautiful sound, that will never happen on a real piano where the proper touch technique is required to get a nice sound.

Also, the pedalling, digital pianos create an overpedaling problem on people when they move to an acoustic one.

Or aftertouch for example, no the aftertouch effect but the feeling on it and playing without reaching that poing.

So can there be a configuration of Pianoteq focused on force a proper way of playing, maybe the technology is not ready for the tone as it should not only read velocity but also changes of velocity on a single depress of the key?

Still would love to see an fxp to help with it, as it is my bigger problem with sampled pianos and impossible to do there.

Last edited by Rohade (11-09-2013 23:48)

Reply by doug

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

I'd say that, for learning proper piano technique, Pianoteq is much better than sampled pianos (depending very much on your keyboard) but still not in the same league as a real piano.

For one thing, aftertouch is irrelevant on a real piano but release is. But the release value from a keyboard that supports it, is a one-time value, whereas the release on a piano takes place over time.

Reply by ddascher

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

Rohade wrote:

Have you thought of an fxp to mimic or even exagerate the characteristics of the acoustic piano that must be avoided with a proper technique?.

For example, a big problem of the sampled pianos is the tone, no matter what you do, you hit the key from above, you hit it harsh and wrong and you will still get a beautiful sound, a very beautiful sound, that will never happen on a real piano where the proper touch technique is required to get a nice sound.

Also, the pedalling, digital pianos create an overpedaling problem on people when they move to an acoustic one.

Or aftertouch for example, no the aftertouch effect but the feeling on it and playing without reaching that poing.

So can there be a configuration of Pianoteq focused on force a proper way of playing, maybe the technology is not ready for the tone as it should not only read velocity but also changes of velocity on a single depress of the key?

Still would love to see an fxp to help with it, as it is my bigger problem with sampled pianos and impossible to do there.


I would think a piano software company (and Pianoteq, specifically) would not be motivated to mimic every aspect of an acoustic piano even if they could.  It would seem that they would be interested in "improving" upon the acoustic wherever possible.

An acoustic piano company does not strive to make it difficult to achieve a beautiful sound when you press a key, they just haven't figured out how to fix that problem.   If they could give you a beautiful sound regardless of how you press the key, they would.   

The digital world has figured that out and it seems doubtful they would wish to build in the flaws of the acoustic world.

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

Touch response is - obviously - also a hardware specific problem, see the (very nice) VPC1 tentative from Kawai, for example.
Overpedalling is more related to most digital pianos having not enough polyphony and/or note release length. This can be simulated inside Pianoteq (much) better than with sampling. For a lot of polyphony though, you need a very capable PC.

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Reply by tractor_music

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

At a GUESS one could approach what you suggest with a custom velocity curve.

As far as "learning" on electronic pianos (they are not ALL "digital", some are VERY analogue) and transitioning to physical hammers on metal strings type pianos...  ???
To some extent this may be like learning to ride bicycles, get the basics on whatever is available to you, then get onto something more suited to what you intend to pursue, i.e. mountain bikes are quite different to BMX trick bikes, which are again different to fixed gear track race bikes, etc. 
It would be fruitless to try modifying any of these types in order to perfect one's techniques on a different type.

Aside from that - it isn't at all clear that there is a significant population headed in the direction of pursuing technique  that is perfect for concert grand pianos, i.e. some of us are happy enough just making music and don't have the time or energy to expend on achieving conservatory standards.

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

I disagree... more or less. Academy students learning  during all the year on a digital (what "analogue" electronic piano do you know ???) pianos are always asked to suddenly perform on a "real" one before the jury at the end of the year. And it can be disastrous. Overpedalling being probably the biggest problem.

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Reply by Rohade

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

Hi Luc I agree with you and that was the motivation behind this post.

Why?, I feel there is a need in that sense, as another one said some are just happy making music, but more and more people these days are using digitals to learn piano, Pianoteq can help a lot in that sense, with an Fxp, a special model, who knows, but it can.

And I feel there is not only a market for it, but also a big need and will help a lot of people greatly, also, a lot of people don't like digitals as they are not the real thing, that will help them get closer to it.

Is just another way to way to use Pianoteq advange over samples and another perk of modelled pianos. Why not do it?

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

well, a particular fxp is maybe not even needed: just enough polyphony (and a long enough release), as I wrote. And then there is the hardware question...

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Reply by delt

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

What do you mean by "overpedalling"? Pressing the pedal too hard? or keeping it down too much?

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Reply by Rohade

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

Keeping it down when you dont have too, is like if the decay of digital pianos were so short that it doesnt matter that much if you play some notes with the overtones of others as much as it matters on an acoustic piano.

Overpedalling is ver common from people who moves from a digital, to an acoustic piano. It happened to me.

Reply by mabry

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Re: Pianoteq to study Piano?

ddascher wrote:

An acoustic piano company does not strive to make it difficult to achieve a beautiful sound when you press a key, they just haven't figured out how to fix that problem.   If they could give you a beautiful sound regardless of how you press the key, they would.   

The digital world has figured that out and it seems doubtful they would wish to build in the flaws of the acoustic world.

The very characteristics of a real piano that allow you to create beautiful sounds are the same ones that allow you to produce ugliness. I don't think you can have one without the other. Change the piano so that the ugliness is not possible and you no longer have an instrument that sounds like a piano.

I have always thought that Modartt, with Pianoteq, is interested in duplicating the sound of real pianos as closely as possible and this is what I hope they will do in the future. So I would not want them remove the ability to create those ugly sounds that we all - or many of us, anyway - know and hate so well.