Topic by Pitou

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  • Pitou
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Topic: Velocity or something like that ?

Hello I am a new user of pianoteq (stage for the moment).

I use it with my mox8 yamaha and the sound is great but something is difficult and maybe impossible to obtain. I would like to hear all sounds : metalic forte and sweet piano/pianissimo without breaking my keyboard.

After a long try, two problems are present with my settings (slow keyboard)

the main : mediums are too bright when I'm playing forte. Not exactly that. In fact forte sounds (metalic) come too easily on mediums on my keyboard. I tried different settings with velocity curve and most of time the bass became too sweet.

I know with pianoteq pro I could change cutoff (with note per note edit). Is it the solution ? (but the pianissimo would be more sweet too)


the second is about volume in mediums : When i'm playing forte the sound become metalic but the volume isn't increase enough (On a real piano when I play forte the sound become very strong/high level). No problem with the bass or high notes. To modify with Equalizer is an idea but it would increase the sound level in pianissimo too.


I realized that sound volume and brightness are associate in the velocity curve.

I remember we can change volume in note per note but could we change the sound volume only in the forte (and only in mediums for exemple ?)

It was my questions/sugestions and feelings about this great program

Sorry for my english I am french
I hope I was understandable
Thank you

Reply by delt

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

Did you try playing around with the "dynamics" setting? If you move it to the right, there's more difference in volume between soft and loud notes, in addition to the timbre. If you move it completely to the left, all notes will sound at the same volume but with different timbre, more metallic if you play harder.

I'd guess adjusting this setting, in addition to the velocity curve, will get you what you're looking for.

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Reply by custral

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

Delt's given you more to play with, and I can add something to it. In a recent discussion, Philippe Guillaume (IIRC) said that Velocity was more "brutal" than Dynamics, in affecting both Volume and Timbre (as per Hammer Hardness effect, again IIRC), whereas Dynamics only affected Volume.

There's a hint in there, that Hammer Hardness is a 3rd thing you can look into.

Reply by Pitou

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

Thank you for your answers.
Even with these two solutions (that I've ever tried)
The problem is always the same for me.

Dynamics affect all the notes. I would like to change dynamics (volume curve in fact) only on a part of the keyboard.

Hammer hardness is effective on all the keyboard too.
Or is there a setting not per note too in pro version ?

For the next version I hope these two settings dynamics and hammer hardness (*3) will become not per not edit.

I even thougt about "88" velocity curves but no it's a joke ^^

Reply by Pitou

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

(I forget something...)

Hammer hardness (*3) is one of the most important setting in my opinion.

My difficulty with velocity/brightness is transition between mezzo and forte in general or between piano and mezzo if mezzo setting (in hammer hardness) is on right. The sound become suddenly too bright.

There are 127 midi "sensitive touch" but the sound has three timbres in a configuration (and three others with soft pedal) ?

Could we imagine for the future a timbre for (ppp, pp, p, mp, mf, f, ff, fff) ? Hammer hardness (*8) settings ? With note per note edit ^^' ? It would permit to have transitions, not too audible between each change of brightness.

I don't know if it would be "realistic" (sound and playability).

I just add one last thing : I don't like to hit my keyboard too much.
Potentially, I can obtain all the sounds. However the beauty of forte (75 velocity and much more for fff) is not accessible easily. If there are others owners of mox8, I will be curious to talk about that.

edit : I realize/remember there are much more than three or six timbres (pedal or not).

Last edited by Pitou (04-08-2013 12:52)

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

bonjour Pitou, je ne suis pas certain qu'avec la version Stage ce soit possible, mais je crois que oui, et qu'avec les paramètres de vélocité, il y a une solution à tous tes problèmes. La réponse MIDI varie énormément d'un clavier à l'autre. Il est par exemple possible d'atteindre le fff avec une vélocité de 100 ou 110 au lieu des 128 normalement requis.  Par contre les résultats de la calibration automatique ne sont pas nécessairement à prendre "au pied de la lettre", on peut tracer des courbes à volonté, à toi de jouer !

PS: que veux-tu dire par "3" ou "6" timbres? Ce n'est pas de l'échantillonnage, c'est de la modélisation, il y a 88 notes x 128 timbres, et même davantage !

***

Pitou hello, I'm not certain that this is possible with the Stage version, but I think so, and with the velocity settings, there is a solution to all your problems. MIDI response varies greatly from one keyboard to another. For example it is possible to achieve fff with a velocity of 100 or 110 instead of 128 normally required. But the results of the automatic calibration are not necessarily to be taken "as is," you can draw curves at will, you'll just have to "play" a bit with them !

PS: what do you mean with "3" or "6" timbres? It's not sampling, it's modeling, you have 88 notes x 128 timbres and even more !!!

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Reply by Pitou

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

well, I discover the sound totally different with my speakers (enceintes)

I can adjust treble and bass. With low treble the mettalic sound disapears on mediums.

It wasn't possible with my headphone.
The sound is really better. I must be carefull to my neighbors.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Velocity or something like that ?

Pitou wrote:

Dynamics affect all the notes. I would like to change dynamics (volume curve in fact) only on a part of the keyboard.

Hammer hardness is effective on all the keyboard too.
Or is there a setting not per note too in pro version ?

Yes, both dynamics and hammer hardness can be changed note per note in the PRO version.

Philippe Guillaume's Website