Topic by TJ76

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Topic: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

Hi there!

As I am new in the Pianoteq-Community I would like to introduce myself. Since a couple of weeks I'am reading posts in this forum and I very much enjoy the the competence and friendly atmosphere. Happy to join !

I am 36 years old, live in Germany, play piano since age 8 and do occasional amateur jazz-gigs in small clubs around the Frankfurt area.

I'm currently changing my portable/digital setup from  a very nice but heavy and (of course) sample-based stage piano to the team of Pianoteq plus midi-action (currently waiting for delivery of a Doepfer pk88 gh to check out).

My Laptop is a bit old (2007) but seems to work fairly with Pianoteq (1.8 GHz dual core, 2 GB RAM). I haven't purchased an Interface yet and this is where my list of questions starts...

1. When practicing I use my beloved 250 Ohm Beyerdynamic DT880 pro headphones. When plugged to the line out of my computer they give just enough volume to sound natural but I wouldn't mind a bit more. Now, when I use an interface (and what interface?) will there be a higher output signal that can make those high-impedance headphones sing? Do interfaces have some kind of a built-in headphone preamp? I'considering Presonus Audiobox 22vsl or Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 and haven't found any information on their headphone output impedance range. Any ideas...???

(I know that the RME babyface is THE ONE but as I probably will never do serious recording I am hesitating to spend the extra money for it. I'prefer a solid, simplistic interface).

2. I own a Yamaha Silent Piano for acoustic playing and everyday practice. With headphones on it is not very impressive soundwise but i like the feel of the real action when playing with headphones. I do try to use the Yamaha-Silent midi signal for pianoteq which - theoretically could be a perfect solution - but the result is not satisfying. It sounds ok (with limitations in dynamic range when compared to proper masterkeyboards) but feels strange. I've read in another forum that the Yamaha Silent only generates velocity values of 1 - 100. That might be one reason.
Any experiences with that issue...?

Thanks in advance for your anwers. Im am happy to be here, Pianoteq 4 plus Bluethner is to me the most serious upgrade in digital Piano-Sounds that I've ever witnessed. Cheers!

TJ76

Reply by Ehudk

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

If you are ok with the sound quality and you just need some more gain, you can start by buying a cheap headphone amp. I have this one and it work fine with my AKG 701s:
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.a...=105026001
With this amp you'll be able to add some more gain to any audio interface.
I use it with this audio interface-
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr...r-audio-2/

Last edited by Ehudk (12-05-2013 20:47)
Pianoteq 5 Standard (D4, K2, Blüthner, YC5)

Reply by etalmor

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

Welcome TJ!

+1 for the headphone AMP. I use a cheapo Behringer headphone AMP (HA400), straight out of the PC, and it gives a nice boost to my AKG240, which sounds great with Pianoteq.
I used to use my M-Audio ProFire610 unit, but since I don't do any live recordings much I stashed it in the cabinet.
Yes, the sound is cleaner through the Profire, but the difference is not that dramatic, and not worth the headache having yet another box running.

Regarding velocity sensitivity, you can adjust it in pianoteq, so that e.g. 1-100 would be mapped to 1-127.
Try the "calibration" button on the bottom right.

Pianoteq plus Yamaha Silent sounds like a potentially awesome combination, I wonder how it works out for you after to tailor it ...

All the best,
Eran

M-Audio Profire 610 / Roland Fp-3 / Reaper / PianoTeq!
www.myspace.com/etalmor

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Reply by etto

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

For portable work I have a focusrite saffire pro 14. Nice conversion, good and clean preamps, low price and no issues with any of my macs. I drive the old akg 240df (600 Ohm) with it and the level is right for my way to listen to headphones (well below the hearing damage threshold ). I guess with 250 Ohm you are on the safe side (read loud enough) if the Scarlett's preamp is similar to the saffire one.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC4289A53FE3A4807

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Reply by TJ76

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

Thanks for your answers!
Yeah, a headphone preamp will be a good option and ownt mess up my budget... I guess I'd just order an interface and check it hands-on.

etalmor wrote:

Regarding velocity sensitivity, you can adjust it in pianoteq, so that e.g. 1-100 would be mapped to 1-127.
Try the "calibration" button on the bottom right.

I've already tried this of course and it does make things better. But the best playability that I got on the SilentPiano was still far from the feeling with the Roland rd700gx action (using Pianoteq) that I used to have.

And I could not find anything in the calibration wizzard about some "remapping" of my midi signal... Have I missed something?

Reply by Ehudk

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

TJ76, about the silent piano, i don't that tha midi value range should make a big difference. You should try changing the velocity cruve in pianoteq , that will make a big diffrence.
I use to have a silent system in my piano. From my expirience, a better soundcard/interface will give you a more realistic feel and the right volume is a factor as well.

Pianoteq 5 Standard (D4, K2, Blüthner, YC5)

Reply by skip

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

If the laptop is nearly loud enough for you, I'm pretty confident that using the FiiO E6 amp would make it loud enough. However, for headphones like those,  personally I'd try to get get an amp that has a higher output voltage, such as the E9, E10 (desktop units) or the E12 (portable)  The E6 is very cheap though, so maybe you could try one and if it's still not loud enough you could upgrade.

If you really want the Focusrite headphone output specs, I suggest you contact them - they were very responsive when I contacted them about the 8i6. (in fact I do have the headphone amp specs for that product, but it's better if you contact them directly. Make sure you ask them for the approximate maximum RMS voltage into 250 ohms - if it's any less than about 2.5V RMS = 10dBu it may not go loud enough with those headpones. It's all very inexact though. If possible try before you buy. If the output impedance of the 2i4 is the same as the 8i6 it won't be a problem. (I have no idea whether it is or not)

If you are going to try something, make sure you use solo piano, and at the same volume you would use when actually PLAYING live. (this may be louder than the volume you would use if listening to pre-recorded material)

Greg.

Last edited by skip (14-05-2013 11:43)

Reply by TJ76

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

By the way here's a recording using Pianoteq on my Yamaha Silent Piano. After the playing I was myself amazed by the relatively good sound quality, but when I played it it felt rather strange as if the connection between action and sound was wrapped in rubber (can't describe it better). The velocity curve was close to the preset "relatively fast keyboard"

https://soundcloud.com/tj76/lush-life-1

Reply by johng

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

TJ76 wrote:

By the way here's a recording using Pianoteq on my Yamaha Silent Piano. After the playing I was myself amazed by the relatively good sound quality, but when I played it it felt rather strange as if the connection between action and sound was wrapped in rubber (can't describe it better). The velocity curve was close to the preset "relatively fast keyboard"

https://soundcloud.com/tj76/lush-life-1

Is it possible that the sensation you describe is due to excessive latency ? You don't mention which sound drivers you are using, but if you have a windows laptop you should download and install the ASIO4ALL v2 drivers and use these instead of the default windows sound drivers. To use the ASIO4ALL drivers you need to set the audio device type to ASIO in the Pianoteq audio/midi setup panel.

John

Reply by TJ76

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Re: New member, interface issue, Pianoteq + Yamaha Silent

johng wrote:

Is it possible that the sensation you describe is due to excessive latency ? You don't mention which sound drivers you are using, but if you have a windows laptop you should download and install the ASIO4ALL v2 drivers and use these instead of the default windows sound drivers. To use the ASIO4ALL drivers you need to set the audio device type to ASIO in the Pianoteq audio/midi setup panel.

John

Latency is not the problem. I do use ASIO4ALL on my laptop and latency is below 5 ms. The same computer connected to my roland rd700gx was another dimension regarding playability. My theory is that Yamahas MIDI-signal-generation in the Silent-system just doesn't work as precisely as a keyboard that is especially designed for digital-/MIDI- use. The strange playability is also present when playing the onboard sound-engine of my Silent-Piano which does not really bother me (I probaly got used to it over time).

Maybe, as Ehudk suggested, with the better sound quality of a proper interface it will work a little better.
I'll keep you informed.

Cheers