More precise than and without the time lapse of the Kinect:
But what interests me most is that, according to this forum response, it can be set on its side, making a desk top a large multitouch pad:
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthrea...l-Leap-FAQ
I first read about this in a thread on KVR:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350329
And LCD monitors (with or without LED backlight) still the same crap, distorting image, the center looks brighter than the sides if you are very in front it, any angle change create noticeable light variation.
The COMBOs Monitor/TV (monitor with TV signal sinthony), always boost the tones nears whites, creating flat dazzled negativeeffects, poor dynamic range, faded look.
Many monitors or LCD TVs look bad in fast motion games.
And it's terrible to do any cleaning on the screen !!!
When they will fix all the downsides of LCD crapnology ?????
About the sensor... Maybe the arms and hands get tired afer be hang for much time.
Maybe some technohollycs could tell me what monitor is able to direct drawing on screen with a special pen?
Yes, drawing in the air could get tiresome. But did you see my link to their forum, where the developers say that the device can be set on its side, so the top of the desk becomes a large multitouch surface?
Jake, I think you saw the film The Pianist, and the scene where he imaginarily plays a upright piano, without touch the keyboard, shaked your heart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itR0-I9idXk see in 0:36
Háa háaa...
Would this scene be possible with such sensors , or two sets of sensors? Play in the air?
Is that what you want?
A lot of possibility w/that that Leap thingy.
Conductors draw in the air so could be an interesting interface for anything related to conducting. Being silly ... but you could splatter notes onto a score, kind of Jackson Pollack style! It probably gives you a least the amount of control you'd get from a Theremin but without the downsides (all the interference a Theremin's capable of picking up from people too close, changes of temperature) - and with a lot more upsides!
Looks too like they're being pretty generous with SDKs ... will be very interesting to see what might be .... connecting the SDK to Max/MSP could be very nice too ... !
Jake, thanks for posting that link!
Maybe the ideal, for drawing, would be a large table of glass, with a rear projector projecting the image in a adequate angle, and probably to a semi-reflexive material in the table, in a way that do not affect the sensors, and allowing look and direct drawing in the table.
If works it would give precision (due large size) and make tasks like rotoscope (expansive in 3D convercion of films) much easier.
After all, drawing without direct look to the image would not be much different than a mouse.
Anyway, the way it already is would make 3D modeling almost like artesanal, in other words, with own hands. Imagine working in a virtual clay, to make virtual clay pots.
In the future maybe a war will be accidentally initiated by a fly.
Update, for those interested. This post on one of their forums gives the shipping date for preorders as May 13th of this year. They are supposed to go on sale at Best Buy, the large US electronics retailer, on May 19 of this year. In a little less than a month, in other words:
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthrea...April-2013
Their website has been updated at: https://www.leapmotion.com
And there is a preview of their apps store: https://www.leapmotion.com/apps . Includes, of course, mention of playing air guitar or air drums. EDIT: They have a video of a developer using it for controlling a midi harp: https://developer.leapmotion.com/
I admit to sharing worries that a fly could cause a war. Or a new fad in insect-generated symphonies. Not sure which would be worse.
But I'm hoping for a more limited ability--that this thing is precise enough to let the user control Pianoteq's interface and the interface of a host sequencer. Just the equivalent of a touch-screen, in other words.
But something that occurs to me as I type--what if the user used a real guitar instead of the air--could it be calibrated so that playing real strings would trigger midi events? Thus creating a midi guitar with no need for cables? I'm assuming the same thing can't be done for a keyboard--it might be able to register the speed with which a finger moves, but not the force behind it.
EDIT: The developer of the Eigenharp has created a video of his Geco program controlling midi cc's in vsti's using the Leap Motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCwiwYAVxOY
A search on Youtube for "Leap MIDI" turns up quite a few experiments and programs, in fact.
And LCD monitors (with or without LED backlight) still the same crap, distorting image, the center looks brighter than the sides if you are very in front it, any angle change create noticeable light variation.
The COMBOs Monitor/TV (monitor with TV signal sinthony), always boost the tones nears whites, creating flat dazzled negativeeffects, poor dynamic range, faded look.
Many monitors or LCD TVs look bad in fast motion games.
And it's terrible to do any cleaning on the screen !!!
When they will fix all the downsides of LCD crapnology ????
Seems like you don't know about IPS LCD matrix which is fixing most of what you said.
Also, I never had any problems cleaning my LCD.
I only believe watching myself.
I'm tired about people say this or that monitor or TV is great and when I saw in person find a crap and ugly thing with distortions.
By the way, I prefer a good SD than HDTV resolution cause HDTV compression sucks. When a character moves the head very slownly the few dot stains on his/her skin desapiers. This makes me anoyed... details going in and out...
Seems like you don't know about IPS LCD matrix which is fixing most of what you said.
Also, I never had any problems cleaning my LCD.
I wouldn't be mentioning IPS without witnessing it myself, man.
You witnessed it, I didn't.
Many and many times, over, over and over, people come to me and said something was great, great look, great image, great resolution, great definition, great colors etc...
And when I saw in person find to be ugly, artifitial unnatural, with artefacts, distortions, bad colors...
Sometimes I felt like a alien, or someting ... able to see things that ordinary humans don't see.
Other day I showed a LCD monior to a person and said that the colors, contrast, tones along the screen was bad, uneven, anoying... I pointed everthing, explained carefully... And the person told me that do not see any problem. I get crazy with such people cause it's like a show a banana and the person say it's a apple.
After that I conclude most people today are blind or stupid.
Other people think poor mp3 is better than a prime vinyl disc only because mp3 has no hiss. other people think a stereo is 5.1 just because they see the many speakers. You could put a mono by mp3 and most people would not complain. people just see the advertise and associate with good, just by the look.
In a similar way they see advertise of flat tin screen and think is good because the advertisement said so.
I hate to look to a LCD screen. Most people said I'm nuts, but that's what I feel about. I get really anoyed by the fact small head changes, even if parallel, cause changes in the luminance.
And I can't acept that the center of the screen is brigther than the sides, and if you with you head to the side, the center and othe side became darker. For me this is a f... mess, a failure, a downside, a turn back in image quality.
Even a modern LED backlight from Samsung was garbage for my taste.
And why am I the only people on Earth who complain about digital adjustment of contrast make the briht details blown-up, killing the bright nuance, bright tonalities near white making the tones around there a pure white mass????
When the first DVD kit for PC arrive I found it a garbage, cause the image was faded compared to TV, and contrast adjst blown-out the white tones. years after and the same sh...problem exist. DVD and Blu ray producers stated to creat glossy transfer, sometimes too glossy, to try compensate the fu... computer screen contrast problem, bu even so the image blown-out bright tones.
TV contrast and computer monitor contrast are different. Even CRT monitors for PC will look faded compared to TV.
I keep my CRT TV and my CRT monitor. To the hell with LCDs and films on PC...
PS: For Einstein sakes... Why sound industry keep the poor CD instead of use better media, with higher frequency and more bits, and more channels?
If people want to find a good audio only have shows recorded live in a BD.
I wouldn't be mentioning IPS without witnessing it myself, man.
Yep, you're an alien alright.
PS: For Einstein sakes... Why sound industry keep the poor CD instead of use better media, with higher frequency and more bits, and more channels?
If people want to find a good audio only have shows recorded live in a BD.
Because CD quality is really enough for human hearing. "Higher frequency" doesn't matter because 99.9% people lose the top range of hearing before they hit 30 years of age. Bit depth doesn't matter because you don't need more than 96 dB (and D/A converters have very much improved over the years, too).
Yep, you're an alien alright.
But when IPS LED arrive they only now started to show the deffects of standart LCD.
Now people will spot it, only because a advertise said so. People=robots conducted by advertisement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq7W_pkOeZw (portuguese audio but you can see the demonstration comparison)
Anyway I bet it's not good as they say. If I saw in person I probably will see remains of the old deffects.
Because CD quality is really enough for human hearing. "Higher frequency" doesn't matter because 99.9% people lose the top range of hearing before they hit 30 years of age. Bit depth doesn't matter because you don't need more than 96 dB (and D/A converters have very much improved over the years, too).
CD it's just stereo.
In forums use to talk about lossless 5.1 sound.
How can people accept stereoCD and request 5.1 lossless over 5.1 compressed?
Many people lose earing quality prematurelly cause they stay with ultra loud sound in crazy parties and dance houses.
IPS LED monitors already exist and they are top of the class. Check out Dell U2412M, it's a splendid monitor.
And people lose high frequency range even without going to extremely loud parties...
Yes, age tends to create some hearing loss for some frequencies. But loud parties cause PEMATURE DAMAGE.
You still have to explain why people accept a simple stereo sound, instead of quality require 5.1 sound for music albums.
I bet it's about the degradation that mp3 and piracy brought. People accept any crap today cause got used with free music, free crapnology.
I need to see this Dell model myself, cause youtube videos about it's not reliable.
The last time I went to a store I asked the seller to show me a tin flat screen TV with no distortion at all when I move the head, and he said all models he had and all models he ever saw have this problem.
So I said the store had nothing worth to buy cause industry only had crap in terms of television today.
IPS LED monitors already exist and they are top of the class. Check out Dell U2412M, it's a splendid monitor.
And people lose high frequency range even without going to extremely loud parties...
2 speakers are cheaper to buy than 6. Easier to place somewhere, too. That's why it's more widely accepted than surround. Practical reasons.
From wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_panel)
"IPS panel (In-Plane Switching technology) is a technology used for liquid crystal displays (LCDs). It was to solve the main limitations of TN-matrices at the time: relatively slow response, small viewing angles and low-quality color reproduction."
"Disadvantages
IPS panels have slower response times and are therefore more prone to the ghosting effect.
IPS panels require up to 15% more power consumption than TN displays."
Suposed to solve slow response time... and the disavantage it's have slow response time...
Confuzing information...
Anyway if it have ghost effect it's a inadequate for me.
I never saw ghosting or inadequate repsonse in CRT. Such garbage effects and others, as poor colors and view anle, only rise after the suposed " technology revolution of screens".
That Dell monitor has 8 ms response time. This is definitely not a problem in any line of work outside of hardcore gaming (tried and tested it myself - no ghosting when playing Pianoteq or doing any kind of DAW work ). Which you're not doing, right? I'm not doing that either.
The pros highly outweigh the cons of IPS. You get no warping of colors depending on angle of looking, you get 178° viewing angle without any artifacts, you get much better color fidelity. Ghosting effect was a problem with the first IPS matrices which had latencies above 10 ms. This is becoming MUCH better in the newer ones.
Similarly, from Wikipedia:
* IPS panels display consistent and accurate color from all viewing angles.
* Unlike TN LCDs, IPS panels do not lighten or show tailing when touched. This is important for touchscreen devices, such as smartphones and tablets.
* IPS panels can process high speed signals without data loss by using copper wiring with low resistance values.
* IPS Panels offer clear images and stable response time.
These are much more important than the listed cons. In fact, I would completely disregard the "15% more power consumption" argument because it just doesn't matter - it's still very very low compared to a CRT, so, not a proper negative.
And, hell, I'm not going back to CRT ever again. They take too much room and power, and are heavy bastards. They're history!
Add in ineradicable color-fringing in the corners, ineradicable non-linearity up the screen and across it. Hopeless.
Add in ineradicable color-fringing in the corners, ineradicable non-linearity up the screen and across it. Hopeless.
That's TN, not IPS.
Ok, maybe this specific model of Dell it's perhapse acceptable.
But I bet it costs a fortune.
In the meantime 98% of the flat slim monitors on world look like crap.
Do you hate LCDs like me???
I imagined I was the only in the whole planet. Háaa... háaa. háaaaa....
Add in ineradicable color-fringing in the corners, ineradicable non-linearity up the screen and across it. Hopeless.
Ok, maybe this specific model of Dell it's perhapse acceptable.
But I bet it costs a fortune.
No, it's <300€! Quite affordable for 24" with such image quality.
Is this thing any good for mundane text editing? I'm looking for something to replace a mouse when working on my laptop in a confined space in my car. I don't like touchpads. Haven't tried a trackball yet but I don't think I'll like that much either.
Greg.
Dear me! OK, try this -
Add in ineradicable color-fringing in the corners of CRTs, ineradicable non-linearity up the CRT screen and across it. Hopeless.
300€ it's very expansive.
OLED it's reported as having even better colors and purer blacks. But it's a new thing, even more expansive.
Oled will save the world from this actual misery of slim screens. When get affordable...
Beto-Music wrote:Ok, maybe this specific model of Dell it's perhapse acceptable.
But I bet it costs a fortune.
No, it's <300€! Quite affordable for 24" with such image quality.
Is this thing any good for mundane text editing? I'm looking for something to replace a mouse when working on my laptop in a confined space in my car. I don't like touchpads. Haven't tried a trackball yet but I don't think I'll like that much either.
Greg.
I'm holding my breath about the possibilities for text editing. It's sensitive, possibly too sensitive for fine motor movements in the air like trying to select a sentence or drag selected text around a page. But since it can apparently turn a normal screen into a touchscreen, it should be as good as a touc screen for editing text. (Trackballs, for me, have been terrible for text--too hard to control precise movements.)
300€ it's very expansive.
OLED it's reported as having even better colors and purer blacks. But it's a new thing, even more expansive.
Oled will save the world from this actual misery of slim screens. When get affordable...
EvilDragon wrote:Beto-Music wrote:Ok, maybe this specific model of Dell it's perhapse acceptable.
But I bet it costs a fortune.
No, it's <300€! Quite affordable for 24" with such image quality.
I don't find 300€ very expensive (it's definitely not "a fortune"), especially for a 24" monitor. Pianoteq Pro costs more! Not to mention that a CRT monitor of the same size would be even more expensive than 300€), so... Your argument is invalid.
Our importation tax is 60%, and we have the most "son of a b..." shipping cost...
Such monitor it's not available here yet, and importation would be the only way.
And for me anyway it's like a flying source. I only believe watching myself. ;-)
And inchs for 16:9 it's not the same thing in final area as 4:3.
A given X value for diagonal inchs result in a larger area for a 4:3 than for 16:9
A 29 inches TV (4:3) looks big, but a 29 inchs (16/9) TV looks small.
That Dell is not 16:9, it's 16:10, which is MUCH, MUCH better, for DAW work especially.
Too bad you're in Brazil (judging by your e-mail)... Those import costs are - ridiculous. I can get that Dell for 260€ here in Croatia. So I'm going to get two of them.
Thinking some more about text editing and Pianoteq with a Leap Motion.
In a word processor, of course, any gesture could be tied to a macro, so that any motion could perform any string of commands, but some gestures might be natural:
-Putting passages in text boxes might make it more valuable: Simple to reorganize a sequence of paragraphs.
-A finger gesture could turn a page.
-A pulling or pushing gesture could zoom in and out, making text larger or small enough that several pages can be seen at once.
-For brief documents, the user may be able to hold up a number of fingers to go to a given page.
-"Drawing" an X across a word could delete it.
For Pianoteq, beyond using it for dragging sliders and changing effects in real-time, I'm wondering:
-A hard finger flick towards a slider could open the Note Edit pane for the parameter?
-I'm assuming that in a Note edit pane, a finger movement could drag the setting for a note up or down. Could three fingers move three settings at once? A bit of finger painting in the Spectrum profile NE pane?
-Moving mics around with a fingertip could be nice. May be able to move several mics at once, using several fingers. And move the new upright piano's wall.
-Arranging several NE panes on the screen could be easy, along with changing their size.
Things I hope don't catch on:
--Holding a hand to one's ear causes a midi file to play. Suddenly, mime gestures are popular. Thumbs up saves a file; thumbs down to close a file without saving.
--Tongue gesturing. Seriously, there's a video on Youtube that shows someone using his tongue with a Leap Motion. Has serious applications for people with disabilities, but I fear the thought of people flipping through books with tongue-darts.
--I'm not going to talk about pornography among serious people like ourselves.
--Museum installations in which a patron's movements trigger lights and sound. Well, this could be fun and serious, but there will be a lot of bad stuff, too. Already being done with motion sensors, but this device will just make it less expensive and easier.
People=robots conducted by advertisement.
off topic: It really annoys me that indeed that is often right, Beto-Music. But often it's that way, like you state.
Interesting thread, thanks for starting it, I had no clue... the guitar-midi-side would be quite interesting, if such things would be possible a myriad of guitarists of the past would have been very happy. I remember Jan Akkerman toyed with such things a lot, but was never fully happy with the results.
Back to pianoteq ... (and back to other things for a second - of course the main use, Jake, would be for pornography, no question about that, compared to serious use for, in our case, pianoteq....)
Well, let's see what the future will bring - people, and I know some, for example developers, with serious hand problems after years of mouse-using would indeed find it nice to for example set mics with such gestures in pianoteq...
That's why pianoteq it's honest, cause have almost no advertisement at all, but mostly people checking themselves, trying and enjoying.
About the sensor... I don't know for sure how usefull it would be for 2D. Hand and mouse support it's probable less tiresome than hands on air. Try yourself to let the hands free moving in the air. After a few time we feel tired.
Of course that for 3D modelling it's other thing. Faster...
And for 2D in a surface, with place to hands can be better than free on the air.
About future problems on hands of users, it's a serious problem, cause if you go to physiotherapy clinic, they use the same silly gadgets than decades ago. Electric pulses, ice bags, exercises, some ultrasound to warm tissue. Stopped in time, a museum.
Beto-Music wrote:People=robots conducted by advertisement.
off topic: It really annoys me that indeed that is often right, Beto-Music. But often it's that way, like you state.
Interesting thread, thanks for starting it, I had no clue... the guitar-midi-side would be quite interesting, if such things would be possible a myriad of guitarists of the past would have been very happy. I remember Jan Akkerman toyed with such things a lot, but was never fully happy with the results.
Back to pianoteq ... (and back to other things for a second - of course the main use, Jake, would be for pornography, no question about that, compared to serious use for, in our case, pianoteq....)
Well, let's see what the future will bring - people, and I know some, for example developers, with serious hand problems after years of mouse-using would indeed find it nice to for example set mics with such gestures in pianoteq...
Incredible...
Lucky for you.
That Dell is not 16:9, it's 16:10, which is MUCH, MUCH better, for DAW work especially.
Too bad you're in Brazil (judging by your e-mail)... Those import costs are - ridiculous. I can get that Dell for 260€ here in Croatia. So I'm going to get two of them.
In this article, partly about Geert Bevin, the developer of the eigenharp, the price for his Geco, the MIDI application demonstrated in the above video (controlling Reaktor with gestures and a Leap Motion) is said to be $9.99 US:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/04/f...ap-motion/
Looks as though the relatively low price of the device will keep the price of the applications low.
EDIT: There's also a link to the manual for Geco: http://uwyn.com/geco/
Hard to believe--Pianoteq releases a break-through update, revisions of the major pianos, and an upright, and this device is released, all in about a month's span. We do live in interesting times.
My oh my. The release date has been postponed to late July. Many annoyed people on their forums, and I do understand why.
Thanks for your thoughts re: text editing Jake. Btw, despite your caution, I've actually got a trackball now, and I like it. It's not as productive as a mouse, but I like it better than the integrated trackpad of my laptop.
RE: the Leapmotion, I noticed this comment on their site: https://www.leapmotion.com/product
So it doesn’t replace your keyboard, mouse, stylus, or trackpad. It works with them, and without special adapters.
I think if it were capable of replacing a mouse, they'd have stated that as well, but they haven't. (that's not to say it isn't a very interesting and exciting thing, which it appears to be)
Greg.
[off topic]
I'm glad I ignored your warning about the trackball Jake, because I really like it! I'm actually using it all the time - even when I could easily use the mouse. I suspect I'm a bit less productive with it, but it's just so nice to use that I don't mind.
Greg.
[off topic]
I'm glad I ignored your warning about the trackball Jake, because I really like it! I'm actually using it all the time - even when I could easily use the mouse. I suspect I'm a bit less productive with it, but it's just so nice to use that I don't mind.Greg.
Well, I could never control it well. If I had used one for more time, I might have learned to control it better.
I just found a refurbished touchscreen monitor that I'm setting up today. Seems to work well with Pianoteq, although I'm having trouble selecting the yellow bars in the spectrum edit window. Fortunately, this monitor reacts to a stylus, too. My big clumsy hands may have been the problem with the trackball.
How well does trackball work with Pianoteq? Can you control it precisely when moving sliders?
Jake - yes - no problems at all moving the sliders. For example, moving the spectrum sliders, I can easily select the desired strength with the precision that Pianoteq provides. (1dB increments)
I am using a relatively low pointer sensitivity (to allow very fine movements), but a relatively high pointer acceleration, to also make it easy to move the pointer rapidly. This combination works well.
Greg.
EvilDragon.
There is a Last frontier you need to beat in this monitors debate.
In a CRT TV, you increase contrast and the whites do not overboost the tones whites to a complete mass of white, flat white, like a damm LCD TV or monitor does.
If you show a monitor or TV IPS kind, that do not kill tonalities near pure white tone, I would be impressed.
Look this gradiente:
You have black to White. CRT displays make the pure whites brighter, cause increase the luminous power of the crt tube. In a %$@%*&#@ LCD screen, they can't increase the power of pure white light in the contrast adjust, so they make the tones near white go to complete white, killing a good deal of the gradiente, the tones.
I know most LED monitors allow to increase the backlight power, intensity, but this is not connected to contrast adjust, but in a separate adjust... and don't help much.
And no Monitor/TV (TV/monior) have adjust to make the light standart proper to TV, and all TV signals, broadcast looks fadded. If you try to adjust brightness and contrast you got a mess, not a decente TV look.
This problem also exist in a CRT monitor trying to reproduce a film made fot TV CRT display. I remamber my first PC DVD kit, and all after that, that Always reproduced films ina faded look, and adjusts was hopeless, while the same film on TV look very good, glossy with fine dynamics range, descity, and tonalities.
I challenge you to show me one monitor in the whole world that solve theses problems.
Hêe hêee hêe...
:-)
Until there no LCD monitor is good enough.