Topic by Arn0

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Topic: Grantouch built-in speakers

Hi,

As discussed before Pianoteq + Yamaha Grantouch is a very nice and working setup...using headphones.

But has anyone managed to send back the Pianoteq sound through the Grantouch built in speakers ?

I read that Voxas did, but modifying the Aux In signal (on the electronic board??): http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=68

I dont see how the Aux In option could work since it needs some master volume, ie it must let some old Grantouch sounds being mixed with Pianoteq sounds...

If someone here could describe how he actually connected the built in speakers that would be fantastic!

thanks,
Arnaud

Reply by etto

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

I don't now how Grandtouch works but I use another Yamaha DP with aux in and probably is similar.
Basically I send PTQ audio out to aux in and I set the Yamaha local MIDI to off through it's control panel; in this way the keyboard doesn't trigger internal sounds anymore but only output MIDI signals and I'm free to use master volume and tone control for PTQ.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC4289A53FE3A4807

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Reply by Arn0

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Thanks a lot Etto, I did not know that was possible!

However, Grantouch does not offer a midi control panel, I looked in the midi page in the Grantouch manual and it seems that message 120 is "all sounds off". I'd like to try that but cant manage to send that to the keyboard.

Would you know a way to send the appropriate message, through Pianoteq or any software on a Mac ?

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Hi

On youtube I saw some videos of GranTouch connected to pianoteq, and it was all ok.

Unless the video was made by editing the sound and video, after record the midi to pianoteq, I think it proves it's  perfectly possible. 
It's unlikely a good manufacturer like Yamaha would ever create a DP without option to silence the onboard sounds.

If I remember well the guy who made the videos was a forum member.

Reply by etto

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Mmmh Beto is right, it's strange this option is missing.
Anyway it's not a midi message (like the one you've found) but an internal setting that you can eventually backup and transmit using sys-ex midi messages but let leave the things simple
It's something you set directly on the piano. Try to search in the manual for 'local off' or 'local on' setting and if you can't find anything let me know which model it is.

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Reply by Niclas Fogwall

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Arn0 wrote:

Hi,

As discussed before Pianoteq + Yamaha Grantouch is a very nice and working setup...using headphones.

But has anyone managed to send back the Pianoteq sound through the Grantouch built in speakers ?

I read that Voxas did, but modifying the Aux In signal (on the electronic board??): http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=68

I dont see how the Aux In option could work since it needs some master volume, ie it must let some old Grantouch sounds being mixed with Pianoteq sounds...

If someone here could describe how he actually connected the built in speakers that would be fantastic!

thanks,
Arnaud

Hi Arnaud,

I have a GranTouch (GT2). The internal sound can always be muted by setting the volume to zero on the GT2 whereas the external sound via aux-in is received at maximum volume. I control that from the external sound unit. I have not investigated ways to mute the internal sounds and use the volume knob for controlling aux-in but maybe one can find some useful information in the manual.

Regards,
Niclas

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Reply by Arn0

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Niclas, Betto & Etto,

thank you all for your support!

I dont know why: the Aux In option now works great, I must have done a bad wiring before (the Aux In volume was mixed with the local one)

Thanks also for pointing the Midi page in the manual.
It actually raises a doubt about the ability to turn the Local Off on a Grantouch (i have a GT1, but the manual is the same for GT1, GT2 and GT7):
In the Aux message section it refers to parameters 123-125, which if i understand Sysex correctly (i am an absolute beginner!) refers to

123 All Notes Off

124 Omni Mode Off

125 Omni Mode On

but does not include the Local On/Off which is 122, so could explain the X (not available) if front of Local On/Off ?

I tried so send the 122 sysex command (7A in Hex) sending "F0 B0 7A 00 F7"... without effect.
But since i could not send any working sysex command at all I am not sure I am doing it right (maybe I dont know how to send the Local Off properly).

If anyone with a GT1, GT2 or GT7 who knows how to manipulate Sysex could try and tell I think it could be helpful: turning the local Off could bring more flexibility and remove some noise.

Best,
Arnaud

Reply by etto

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Hi Arnaud,
looking to the manual it seems that what has been suggested by Niclas is the only way to achieve that.
Just for information: what you are referring to are 'Control' messages not Sys-Ex. Looking to MIDI impl chart SYsEx transmission is not implemented (X for transmitted and X for recognized).
Due to the lack of a control panel you can use some standard control messages to set basic configurations and, as you noted, the aux messages section indicates local control but is not very clear to me (three lines on first column and four in others);anyway I agree, it seems local control is not recognized.
Anyway if you want to try to send these messages from a daw here is the right format:

'Control A B C' where A is the transmitting channel that should match your piano channel, B is the control type and C the value (0 to 127 or only extremes if used as a switch). Supposing that 122 is the Local command here is the correct input:

Control 1 122 0 (for local off)
Control 1 122 127 (for local on)

But probably it won't work anyway

CHeers
Ettore

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Reply by Arn0

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Hi Ettore,

Thanks for the tip: I could send midi commands to the Grantouch.

123 "All notes off" (sending B0 7B 00) works, but only to end the notes played on the Grantouch from the Midi In interface (it does not stop notes played locally from the keyboard)

122 "Local Off" (Sending B0 7A 00) does not work at all... looks like it is not implemented.

Sad...

There remain 2 ways to play the PTQ sounds on the Grantouch speakers:

1- the user way: using the Aux In

2- the DIY way: bypassing the Grantouch amplifier, connecting direcly the Grantouch's 8 Ohm speakers  to the PTQ amplifier.

I feel actually quite happy enough with the 1st way, but just wondering how far could we get on the 2nd one:

- Do you think we could get better sounds using a better quality amplifier ?

- And how about replacing the internal speakers by better ones? (ie keeping the old grantouch for what it does the best: its keyboard and nice looking furniture

Reply by etto

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Well, if I understand, it seems that the same internal sound can be stopped with a note off command only if played originally from an external MIDI device; if MIDI channels match it makes me think that internal samples and sensors don't communicate using MIDI protocol but some quicker, more precise and simpler proprietary protocol. They are converted to MIDI afterward and sent to the midi out slot. This should explain why local off can't be implemented; it also explains the particular Aftertouch implementation. But it's only a supposition..

Concerning the sound I have a modus series yamaha (F01) and I'm quite happy with the internal amplification. I also use it with PTQ using aux in and local off
A dedicated external system often leads to better results (and some users posted here their experiences with that) but it depends on your needs, pockets and taste.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC4289A53FE3A4807

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Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

What about that ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZfgHyCzetY

Reply by Niclas Fogwall

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Re: Grantouch built-in speakers

Beto-Music wrote:

What about that ?

You refer to a key action failure that a GT user reported. I cannot reproduce it. If you can find a piano store that carries a more recent GT2, you can try this yourself. Since Yamaha is using a real keyboard action, probably identical to that of their acoustic grand pianos, I find it unlikely that there should be any such general problem with the GT's (or the successors N1-N3).

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