Modartt user forum » Pianoteq user forum » Would like buy a 97 keys, 102 keys or 105 keys controller?
Just a small research.
I would like to know if you would have interest in a wider keyboard range, like 97 keys, 102 keys or 105 keys piano keyboard.
For a digital piano or controller.
Please give you opinion about.
Too many keys and you need a good seat that slides real smooth and fast so you can get the whole range
Just a small research.
I would like to know if you would have interest in a wider keyboard range, like 97 keys, 102 keys or 105 keys piano keyboard.
For a digital piano or controller.Please give you opinion about.
Do you have $7000 you don't need?
For posterity.
Interesting... But way too expansive...
The image it's too small, I can't read the brand and model.
Beto-Music wrote:Just a small research.
I would like to know if you would have interest in a wider keyboard range, like 97 keys, 102 keys or 105 keys piano keyboard.
For a digital piano or controller.Please give you opinion about.
Do you have $7000 you don't need?
For posterity.
Hello, I am expecting highest standards in keyboard action - call me nerd but I am using a KAWAI CA 93 as controller - but even for me this would be 2 much. Even the famous black bösendorfer keys are not really played but the extra strings help in the bass range. Hehe I know there is a music piece for this keys :-) Alexander
For you is the CA093 touch feeling significantly different of a real piano action?
I played two Kawai models, but the distance of the key to the pivot point was not long as the CA-95 (probably like CA93) and a bit too lightweight.
Hello, I am expecting highest standards in keyboard action - call me nerd but I am using a KAWAI CA 93 as controller - but even for me this would be 2 much. Even the famous black bösendorfer keys are not really played but the extra strings help in the bass range. Hehe I know there is a music piece for this keys :-) Alexander
for me the action is great. But I am used to acoustic KAWAIS and they are very fast anf a bit light on the right side... Very similar to yamaha. I teally broke my fingers on the bösi in our store ;-) Alexander
Alexander, may I ask about the sound dispersion, sound power, of Kawai CA93 as it have a small piano soundboard?
We know many digital pianos have good speakers and loud sound, even louder than many real pianos. But loudness and power are not the same thing, specially for bass.
My doubt the volume adjust. What happen if the volume set get too high?
Can the speakers be adjusted beyound the soundboard/transducer capability when you set a high volume, making speakers work more than the soundboard, or the volume it's limited to do not exceed the soundboard/transducer power, and keeping always the same relation of power tranducer/speaker ?
And off course, how pianoteq sound in the real piano soundboard of CA-93 ?
Hello,
sorry for my late reply > I had to test this a bit.
I have to point out, that 50% of max volume is a realistic "loudness" compared to the real thing :-)
If I put volume up to 100% with "wall EQ" activated the piano is way to loud but there is absolutely no distorsion nor any misstunes.
Only the vibration effect blows my fingers off the keyboard. One of the functions of the soundboard is to produce vibration effects on the fingers and your feet as on a real piano. This effect is a bit too heavy on 100%.
If I play pianoteq the sound is absolutely fantastic. The main difference is, that pianoteq produces way less deep volume > the bass is a very strong piont of KAWAI pianos. But also no distortion on 100% (input volume of my PC is @ 50%).
Good point is that the sound system of the KAWAI is basically a multi channel speaker system and works also with external sound.
You even can mix internal and external sound :-)
So I hope I could help.
Alexander
I'm crazy to see Kwawi C93 or C95 with pianoteq.
Fantastic sound... Uhhhnnn... good news... Do you think the pianoteq C3 model sounded more organic Kawai soundboard ? Like feels more woodnes, organic?
If you get the legacy add-on you can test even the olds C1 and C2 model of pianoteq, now considered dated compared with the refined pianoteq of today.
I'm not sure if I understand "deep volume" you refer. Is about the real piano strong bass characteristic of Kawai even for real acoustic pianos?
Or maybe the bass would be increased in the equalizer before plug to Kaway CA-93.
Maybe the CA-93 have a adjust only for onboard sound, reinforcing the bass, or the onboard sounds that go to the tranducer (connected on soundboard) are exclusive, a third channel.
Hello,
sorry for my late reply > I had to test this a bit.
I have to point out, that 50% of max volume is a realistic "loudness" compared to the real thing :-)
If I put volume up to 100% with "wall EQ" activated the piano is way to loud but there is absolutely no distorsion nor any misstunes.
Only the vibration effect blows my fingers off the keyboard. One of the functions of the soundboard is to produce vibration effects on the fingers and your feet as on a real piano. This effect is a bit too heavy on 100%.
If I play pianoteq the sound is absolutely fantastic. The main difference is, that pianoteq produces way less deep volume > the bass is a very strong piont of KAWAI pianos. But also no distortion on 100% (input volume of my PC is @ 50%).
Good point is that the sound system of the KAWAI is basically a multi channel speaker system and works also with external sound.
You even can mix internal and external sound :-)
So I hope I could help.
Alexander
Hello,
I will try to produce a youtube video later :-) I am only afraid not to reproduce the audio quality with a video. Will try.
With low tones I meant indeed that KAWAI pianos in our shop in innsbruck produce a very powerful bass.
I can say that ma CA93 comes very close to the real thing.
But the strongest point is really the keyboard action (wood) and the excellent playability > same as pianoteq.
Alexander
My doubts about volume was because the very small uprith acoustic pianos have small soundboard, maybe similar to the the size of the CA93 soundboard, and have limited loudness.
If CA93 sounds fine even in 50% volume, that I supose it's quite louder than a very short real upright, maybe it's not only due the speakers reinforce the sound, but maybe due the transducer vibrates the soundboard more than piano strings would vibrate.
We are suposing the volume adjust of CA93 alters not just the speaker, but also the intensit of the tranducer vibration on soundboard.
The point is: In what volume adjust the transducer get maximun power ?
Maybe in the 50% you said, as it was still natural for your ears.
Last questions: is Kawai pianos strong on bass due the hammer on Kawai pianos hit string with more power?
If I'm rigth this is not a matter of use equalizer on pianoteq, if we wish to simulate that. neither the key kley key loudness adjustment. It would require a key by key velocity curves adjust.
The Kawai video of CA93 on youtube sounds fine, but strange that do not sound like many videos of people playing their upright pianos at home.
Hehe ya a good question...
In my understanding KAWAI uses carbon fibre reinforced hammer mechanics and extra weight on the bass keys.
My only reference goes up to their RX class because we do not sell the EX line in the moment.
I will try record the sound quality as good as possible. I could direct play to wav (that is supported by the CA93) but this does not help because it does not show the sound quality of the speaker soundboard system.
Alexander
P.S.: The transducer is used instead of a bass speaker or sub woofer. So yes it "transduces" in differnet loudness. It is really like a HUUUUGGGGEEE subwoofer
This is a very good news I supose.
We can conclude that a tranducer estimulated soundboard can reach fine quality sounds with loudness higher than a normal acoustic piano, with a soundboard of the same size, could do for bass.
DPs with real soundboard are the way for the future.
Do you feel the soundboard vibrate when play the last piano key on the right side?
One problem with small acoustic pianos, even some small baby grands, is that in poor theater rooms, with crap acosutic, the piano just don't sound loud enough.
Don't forget to record pianoteq conected to CA93 too :-)
Sorry for so many questions and requests.
Look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAkDm6ebr34
Kawai Cs9 (before model CA-93 I think)The video with most natural sound dispersion of a digital piano I saw on youtube.
I know that a video it's different than be there sit in the piano, but the effect it cause on camera's mic it's similar that the videos of acoustic piano people use to post on youtube.
The Kawai professional presentation videos are more "clean", maybe too much, and do not get this effect very well.
Edited: What about Modartt creat a equalize set to try to recreate this sensation of upright in a room, this strong sound effect typical of when someone record a video next to a real upright.
CS9 was very like a real piano in look, and even the sellect buttons could be hide to keep looking as a real upright:
Hello,
ya the CS9. I call the CS the "furniture line". They look great in black polished with the high cabinet.
The only problem is that dure the design KAWAI had to spare out the two very important front speakers that are left and right a top of the keyboard for the high frequency's.
The are banned underneath the keyboard action where the mid range speakers are.
Thus gives the CS9 a bit a dull sound compared to the CA93 (CA = concert ARTIST :-))
The sound board size, power, sound technique is the same.
(ultra progessive harmonic imaging).
Only the CS9 has added hammer fallback samples (don't ask me why the difference, maybe the argue the price of more then 4.000,- Euro).
Alexander
P.S.: Ah eh the cover for the display panel uis really a joke I have to say because it is gray TRANSPERENT :-)
And the glued rubber knob as a rest was maybe handglued by Shigeru KAWAI himself it really does not fit the high quality of the rest.
In our shop we had to switch the piano off and rubb the button off to make photos with the cover closed...
I made a wooden one to just put over the area on my CA93 without hinges. Looks way better.
Interesting informations. Thanks Alexander. :-)
I have a doubt about the wooden keys.
We know that real piano keyboard tends to get off level with time, after some years and many use, or too much climatic changes.
Is the Kawai action prone to the same problem, as it's made of wood and have pins in the balance point where keys are?
I supose Rhodes piano also suffer from a similar problem about keys.
Hello,
here I can only tell you what KAWAI is tell me about this:
Wood keys really CAN get out of shape even being made of best wood for keys.
By using artificial ivory covers it helps protecting the base material.
Defective keys can be repaired or changed by KAWAI even after years.
This is the most important advantage compared with plastic keys: As soon as they are not any longer produced defective keys can not be replaced anymore :-(
The keys on a tradtional KAWAI upright last for about 30-50 years after starting to bend out of shape or braking of the mechanism.
The keys of the CA93 are of easier design (no REAL hammers needed) so an even longer life can be expected.
Alexander
I refered about the keys get out of level one to another, like one be a little high than other in the keyboard line. Not due wood bend due extreme aging, but something fixable with regulation
Example in a old dirt piano:
This in real pianos use to be fixed by placing small pieces of felts, I think so.
And sometimes the area in the wooden key, where the pins fit (pivolt point) get some erosion, and a technician need to also fit some small pieces of felt or other material to fill the extra gap area.
For a wood piece start to bend and make the keyboard and action uselles it really takes time, as you said.
Anyway, in 50 years many people will be replacing a kidney or so... , so why not replace a old digital piano too. Háaa háaaa