Topic by ataradov

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Topic: How different piano models are created?

I'm wondering how different piano models from various manufacturers are created. I can hear that sound results are different from each other, but how close they are to the actual prototypes? Are measurements performed on the actual piano models? Or just sound recordings?

I'm not an expert, but can't two pianos of the same model be tuned to sound substantially different? If so, then why specify names in the program? Just to get better visual representation than "Piano 1", "Piano 2", etc?

Last edited by ataradov (02-12-2012 21:31)

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: How different piano models are created?

I think each manufacturer have hier own "formula for the cake".
From wood type, wood treatment, glues, vernishs, metals, building technics...

Pianos can be tunned different, and even have the hammer head shapped and needled different, or harder or softer.
Al this affects the sound.

Steinway for example let the wood naturally dry for years before start artifitial dry.

Many pianists says that no piano is identical t other. Even a Steinway-D to another Steinway-D from the same factory, the same measurements, built in the same month, tunned by the same person, would not sound identical.

Reply by ataradov

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Re: How different piano models are created?

Exactly. So what I'm selecting when I use a particular model in the Pianoteq? Just a differently sounding piano with no relation to the prototype at all? Or sounding exactly like a prototype with some serial number?

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: How different piano models are created?

SOme piano models on pianoteq are recreation as close as modelling technology allows, like the Bluthner model 1, the YC5, the pleyel, the historic add-ons.

Others are based in piano models, but not 100% intented to be the model, like the grand D4, the C3.
I remamber the first pianoteq version had a piano that was based in two different models.

The variations of a given model, let's supose the Bluthner 1, are few modificatins they made in the pianoteq adjustments, for example hammer hardness, but starting from the basic model created from the analyze of the original piano.

ataradov wrote:

Exactly. So what I'm selecting when I use a particular model in the Pianoteq? Just a differently sounding piano with no relation to the prototype at all? Or sounding exactly like a prototype with some serial number?

Last edited by Beto-Music (03-12-2012 02:29)

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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Re: How different piano models are created?

Some time more than a year ago, when the D4 was being worked out, I made two recordings of Ravel's Alborada del Gracioso on a real Steinway (Model M, not D) and the D4.  I deliberately recorded them very closely together in time (so as to keep the sense of tempo and touch as close as humanly possible to each other).

Next, I rendered the D4's audio, and laid their audios, side-by-side, in Logic Pro 9.  Finally, I switched between the two audio tracks in the same places of the piece.  Many "Pianotechies," including Philippe and Niclas, heard my composite recording, and commented that one could clearly hear the "Steinway sound" between D4 and the actual Steinway.

Now, the sound wasn't exactly the same, because I was playing on a three+ foot shorter Model M.  However, there was enough of the intrinsic sound quality between acoustic and its modeled cousin.

Cheers,

Joe

Reply by Rohade

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Re: How different piano models are created?

Wow what a nice experiment, is it available to hear somewhere?

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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Re: How different piano models are created?

Rohade wrote:

Wow what a nice experiment, is it available to hear somewhere?

Hello Mr. Rohade,

Uploaded to the Other Files area, you will find an mp3 file of the experiment wherein I performed Ravel's Alborada del Gracioso on a Steinway M acoustic grand piano, and then re-recorded the same piece in as close a tempo as possible to the acoustic original.  Next, I interspersed cuts from the audio of each file so one may hear how Pianoteq's D4 Classical AB preset compares with an acoustic Steinway.  I did not have access to a 9' Model D to make my acoustic recording, only a less than 6' long Model M.  The similarities between the acoustic and its modeled D4 are striking!

Here's the URL:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...60kbps.mp3

Enjoy,

Joe