Topic by davide

  • Avatar
  • davide
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 24-11-2012
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Hi to all.

First time writing here, but I'm evaluating Pianoteq and also reading many posts.

I open a new topic since searching the forum (this and other one) I find always comparison btw digital pianos (Yamaha, Kawai, Roland at most) or btw VST (Pianoteq, Ivory, Galaxy, TruePiano...), but apart from some comments I never found a dedicated thread to compare both DP and VST.

After much research I'm owner of a Clavinova CLP 340. IMHO good value for money since will be used by my wife for personal use and sometimes for her work (she teach classic dance). She also wanted to have a "traditional" appearing piano that can be ready in short time (just pressing a button).

But having had the opportunity to try the new Clavinova series clp 440 I was thinking about the most important changes btw 340 and 440: the new sound engine RGE vs the old AWM (ok there are also String Resonance, Smooth Release, Damper Resonance, 256 polyphony in 440 that you can't find in 340 model). After my purchase I also start reading more about VST as a different alternative.

So I have few questions to share:

- The most recent VST pianos are "superior" or at least equivalent respect Clavinova RGE and in fact produce more realistic results? If so I can think to improve in the future my Clavinova by using it as a master keyboard to control a external VST, using also his speakers as monitors (not to mention a good headphone). This can be a cost effective solution in the future to "upgrade" our piano if we want so, having also equivalent sound quality respect the new Clavinova series.

- The clp340 4 dynamic levels AWM sound engine its so bad respect the most advanced 20 levels Ivory II or virtual model such as Pianoteq? My doubt come since I read many statement RGE is better than AWM is much about a personal feeling .

In fact I already tried to connect my laptop with Pianoteq trial to the Clavinova and it work flawless, need only to wait to have a better headphone to let my wife judge the difference. I like Pianoteq background (maybe also since I share the scientific background of the founder and I'm passionate about this approach.

My question its not the endless debate if its better modeled or sampled VST, but the question if for a average investment of around EUR 1000 (that as I read is the average investment for many searching for the first DP) have better result investing in that price target DP (you can buy a new Yamaha Arius, Kawai CN24 or Roland RP301 or used of the previous generation such as my Clavinova CLP 340) or directly a master keyboard + PC + VST + headphone (not considering amplifier+monitor since total cost will be too high).

I like the idea of VST since DP are such a closed system, where the new generation pack new improvements in the audio engine that you can access only buying also the new hardware. VST are free from that restriction and you can evolve separately the different parts of your digital piano.

Last edited by davide (24-11-2012 23:53)

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Hello Davide,

Welcome to the Pianoteq forum.

I have played a Yamaha CLP-340, but have not had the opportunity to try the CLP-440.  Upon reading your post, I understand that you currently own a CLP-340 that your wife also uses.  I gather that you are debating whether to upgrade to a CLP-440, or adapt a VST such as Pianoteq to your current CLP-340.  Another option you have considered was buying a separate controller keyboard plus amplification to run a VST. 

* * * * * *

In my opinion, the best way for you to continue would be to acquire a VST such as Pianoteq, and route it to your CLP-340 through your laptop.  In this way, you have a very nice keyboard action with speakers already placed in a convenient place, and enough amplification to power the CLP's speakers.  In other words, you already own adequate hardware, with the option to upgrade the sound through upgrades in VST.

Please note:  I assume you are using the CLP-340 for your own entertainment in your home surroundings.  If you needed to have more amplification for public performance, then a separate keyboard, amplifiers and speakers would be needed -- at considerably more cost.   

* * * * *

In the past three years, since having acquired Pianoteq, this program has evolved with many improvements in its sound, and has offered many new models of different pianos and other instruments.  None of this improvement would have been possible if I only had a standalone digital piano (unless I spent much more money than VST, upgrading to a new standalone digital piano).


Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (26-11-2012 19:55)

Reply by davide

  • Avatar
  • davide
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 24-11-2012
  • Posts: 4

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Hello Joe,

yes we own a CLP 340 that we use only for our own private entertainment.

Yes my question is, if we want to improve our Clavinova, can we expect from Pianoteq a result comparable or superior respect the new 440 model?

Reading various forums there are much debate around which are the best VST piano. Sentiment are that high quality sampled pianos such as Ivory II are superior regarding quality of sound, but Pianoteq is superior regarding expressiveness.

In fact I'm not so much interested in that debate, since I think Pianoteq can be the perfect solution for a easy upgrade. But even a easy upgrade need to achieve what we want: a superior piano respect our 340 and possibly at the same level of the new 440.

What do you think?

Last edited by davide (26-11-2012 20:21)

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Hello again Davide,

I am quite sure that you may expect Pianoteq to meet or exceed what is achievable in the CLP-440.  In 2009, I had the opportunity to witness the unveiling of Yamaha's Avant Grande, a $25,000USD wonder at a show intended for Musical Merchants.  Although it was marvelous in sound (and very high price as well), I truly believe its sampled sound was not better than today's Pianoteq Version 4, especially when using the newest Blüthner piano model.

If you would be so kind as to furnish me your email address, I would be glad to email you some MP3 files of Yours Truly performing some Chopin and other composers on Pianoteq's Blüthner model.  When you listen to these files through a good set of headphones, I think you will agree it is better than any Yamaha Digital piano at any price.  If you have a Gmail email address, I can send you some .wav files or some truly massive mp3 files up to 25MB in size.  (Otherwise, I am limited to sending you mp3 files of less high sample rates whose memory is 10MB maximum.)

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (27-11-2012 06:21)

Reply by davide

  • Avatar
  • davide
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 24-11-2012
  • Posts: 4

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Thanks, but I can't find a way to send you a private message.

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Hello Davide,

I sent you a forum email, which is similar to a private message in the Pianoteq forum.

If the forum email does not work, then perform a search under the "User List" for jcfelice88keys.  When you click on my user name, you will find contact information that includes my own email.


Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (27-11-2012 19:05)

Reply by Rohade

  • Avatar
  • Rohade
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 15-03-2012
  • Posts: 114

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Hi Davide, the big fat answer is that integrated electric piano sounds are far beyond even old VST and of course Pianoteq.

Remember that the gear you have in your laptop is far superior than the processor, memory and computer components on the Clavinova, if you are talking about VST alone, the sampled piano on the Clavinova is smaller compared to the 30 gig standards of today, Pianoteq would be more similiar to the techology behind the VPiano which is a very expensive one. Regarding the use you give the your Piano and also my opinion, you should get Pianoteq and use it as the sound of the Clavinova. I also tried samples, if you are looking for a particular exact sound samples are good but Pianoteq sound is even better and you get a lot more regarding a real piano touch. Also Pianoteq evolves fast and usually the upgrade is free or low cost, the improvements on Pianoteq are huge steps.

Reply by davide

  • Avatar
  • davide
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 24-11-2012
  • Posts: 4

Re: Yamaha Clavinova vs VST

Thanks Rohade,

I will have my test using Pianoteq with the Clavinova in a short time, I got both a good headphone and also a audio cable to give Clavinova the midi in, so we can try in both ways.

I'm really curios to know what my wife will say about the "new" piano