New version of Notion released

Custral,

Would you mind a question about Notion and editing? I have very minimal needs for a PC host\sequencer--essentially just one midi track for a piano VSTI and audio tracks for vocals and guitar. I've used Cubase for years to record, largely because it can create a "score," if one can call a two staff piano rendering a score.

But basic editing in Cubase is less than ideal. If I just want to experiment, moving a verse forward or inserting a new introduction, I have to set markers and then copy and paste to an area between another set of markers. My most usual computer tool is the word processor, and all I really want is for midi\score editing to be just as simple---I want to be able to treat a measure the way I would treat a word or a sentence. Double-click on it, or press the Shift key and then click to select several measures, press Ctl-X, click at the end of another measure, press Ctl-V, and it's done.

Seems obvious, but I'm not finding a sequencer with a score view that has a similar way of working. (Cubase lets one easily  cut and paste in the Track view, but you can't see the notes or lyrics. Reaper and Mulab do not have scores. The recorder in Reason has the nice blocks feature, but again there is no score, and no Pianoteq version for Reason. Given the current emphasis on creating beats and ambient textures, most of the newer sequencers seem uninterested in including a score view.)

Does Notion make cutting and pasting more straightforward--more similar to a word processor? I've seen discussions of cutting and pasting on the Notion forum, and it seems promising. I would ask questions there, but I'd like an unofficial view. (As far as I can determine, there is no way to download a manual for Notion from their web site, and there is no demo version.)

Or do you or does anyone else here know of another PC sequencer with a score view that allow fast editing?

I thought this step was clear in my mind, but checking found I was foggier than that so I just tried it.

Like this - I click-dragged across the full height of a score for one measure. Upon release of the drag, the single selection down the page broke into the corresponding individual selections for the parts in that measure, when I could choose Copy from a single right-click. Moving then to a remote measure and left-clicking into the topmost part placed a green band down the score at start of the new measure. And choosing Paste from a single right-click pasted all copied parts into all corresponding parts for the new measure, shunting what had been present along.

Seems like what you want.

ADDED: that's still for Notion 3, but won't have changed much if any; it ain't broke. BTW, didn't check when the copied (or pasted-into) measure slices through a tie between notes, or say a crescendo, or a continuing intonation-instruction, p, pp, ppp into an ff stretch, etc. Could be the result would need gluing and patching. And you'd expect a Cut-and-Paste to behave properly, but with such reservations (analogy to italic paste-into plain text, and so on) to be wary of (though simplest approach would be to suppose the  bare notes - analogy bare text - adopt the context pasted-into).

But I clearly recall you can Copy and Paste between parts.

Wups. Carefully examined, the description above doesn't match reality. Rather than shunting along at the paste point, the copied measure obliterates the pasted-into measure. The Help file actually covers the case however, just doesn't mention what's clearly a workaround for the missing (and very needed) shunt .

To prepare, you insert a blank measure at the paste point. Do this by 1) inserting an extra measure-long rest or measure-long number of rests at end of the topmost part's preceding measure, when Notion reacts by coloring the surplus rests red; 2) so insert a barline ahead of the red rests (a press on 'I' selects this score-high 'character' for inserting, and a click into place actually inserts it). Shunt achieved.

With the paste-point prepared like this, lose the barline-'character'-for-insertion with an Esc, and proceed with the copy, and paste-into the prepared blank measure. Then inspect all pasted parts for any missing notes (seems to be a necessary precaution,  though I see that a pasted-into continuing context like a slur remains in force).

With multiple measures to copy, insert as many bars as needed at the paste-point.

It all adds up to Do Your Own Shunting, and whether N4 implements auto-shunt is a question. You wouldn't think that'd be a difficult fix - simply auto-insert a barline ahead of any surplus rest(s), keeping the red color until the rest(s) have filled a bar's worth of beats. But some other consideration might bar this. You might WANT any obliterated paste-point measure(s) to BE obliterated, for one.

Such a want might arise by working-out an alternative version of the paste-measure in some spare space (say in empty bars at end of composition). If you decide FOR the alternative, AND your copy-measure(s) will make up the bar-loss, THEN you WANT the obliteration-behaviour. Tedious calcs I know, but they can arise.

Scanning the Help I spotted something about adding-in an audio file (though that's not adding-in a live recording). I must however now get ready for a wedding, but I'll get back with more on it.

Thanks Gilles, for triggering me to the following way of getting Paste With Shunt. (Method's actually Shunt Then Paste.)

Suppose I have a composition ABCDEFGH, where the A thru H are measures. And I'd like it to become ABCDABCDEFGH.

A glance shows Shunt happens with 4 blank measures inserted between D and E. So press 'I' (invoking the score-high barline 'character'), position it just ahead of the barline beginning E, then left-click 4 times. The composition is now ABCD****EFGH, where the * are blank measures, and Shunt is achieved.

Lose the barline-'character' with Esc, Select ABCD, Ctrl-C, then Ctrl-V into ****, and there's my ABCDABCDEFGH.

It mightn't be Copy and Paste with auto-Shunt, but it's no trouble to do!

I might add, this method lets me easily expand my compositions' ends, middles, beginnings. Solid.

ADDED: it happens the composition I tried this on had a change of clef from G to F marked just ahead of measure E, and my blank bar-clicks were placed after the clef-mark. Lo, the pasted notes were in the F-clef changed positions, correctly.

MORE: scanning the Help to its very end, discovered there was an Index, and there found 'Cut and Paste' (p 6.7). Can't do better than Copy and Paste what p 6.7 has to say:

Paste Insert
The paste discussed above replaces existing notation. If you want a paste to be an insertion, leaving existing notation in the score, then right-click. In the context menu select Edit > Paste Insert.

Always head for the Index - what else can one say? (And yes, the F-clef took effect at the paste-point, exactly as before.)

So, went and bought the upgrade, downloaded the prog, cleared the hard drive for the samples (6+GB), and downloading those took the forecast 8 1/2 hours, give or take. Then the Downloader froze. On the Buy Page, found a description of an alternative to the standard Downloader, given in hi-level summary, whose realisation went as follows -

Each of the instrument files has a '*.prox' format, and there's dozens of them, scores of, rather. The alternative's description says that you run your Notion 4, then double click a .prox file, which then disappears, but don't worry, it's only been sent to the place it should go. Simple, no?

Well, no. In reality, first up, (say you've got Miroslav installed, a 32-bit installation it'd be good to have a 32-bit Notion to cope with) it's desirable to have both 64-bit and 32-bit N4s installed, and though the N4 installer provides for you to select which, no way is it clear how to do both. You yourself have to fathom that choose either type-install then relabel the shortcut to indicate its type; next repeat for the other type (differencing the new shortcut) will be a workable method, (as it is, and no other method *can* work, thanks lots for all the help, developers).

Having taken this much trouble for Miroslav, it's aggravating to next discover the N4 32-bit version won't host it even so (though the equally 32-bit N3 would do). An early post on the Notion Forum however says that using 'Jbridge' will fix the 64-bit/Miroslav incompatability. You have to wait a day after paying for Jbridge, before a working copy will be emailed and you can find out if it'll fly on *your* machine. Cheap though. And it seems to work, at least, as seen from N4's 64-bit Score Setup window, Miroslav appears to be present, with none of its instruments ghosted. Performance of Miroslav's fiddle-class instruments holds up well, too. 32-bit N4 isn't needed, then, on Miroslav's account.

Returning to the N4 sound-bundle and its .prox-es, and its simple-sounding description, plus having the 64-bit version running, here's how it plays: you have a long list of ZIPs containing prox-files, in alpha-order so you extract then double-left-click the top one (double-left-click because for all its looks, the file isn't a file, it's a *folder*), only to discover the contents have the same name, same exactly as the containing folder. A double-click on this item fetches up a "Do You Want To Install This Instrument?" query, and OK makes it disappear, when a success-message follows. Leaving you to send the empty.prox folder to Recycle Bin.

Do that once, fine. Do it dozens of times, evil. How did the developers develop such a dog of a method? Probably the running N4 version will send the double-clicked item inside the identically-named  folder where it needs to go, differently for each version, via a tailored script resident in each.

Here's my advice based on this bumpy experience. 1) Buy Jbridge (~16 Euros, and sooner or later you'll need 32-bit compatability for your 64-bit N4, if you can use 64-bit). 2) Forget 32-bit N4 if possible. 3) Pray that your sounds-bundle-downloader doesn't freeze after downloading.

If it does freeze, tough luck, but look on it as an opportunity. Use Search on 'prox' to unearth WHERE the ZIP files you've downloaded for 8+ hours are kept, and make an archive copy of them (never need another download).

ADDED: oh, yeah, forgot. Though the Chapters in the Help file say there's an Index, the page referred to doesn't exist. That's doesn't exist right now, let's hope, they're still rewriting it.

I can see no reason why N4 32-bit wouldn't work as well as N4 64-bit (PLUS Jbridge). But also I see no reason to put myself to the same troubles getting it working. Once through was enough! (Even though this time the go-forward would be with few doubts about the upshot.)

For, in performance I can't see any worsenings afoot, while with 64-bit there's every cause to expect *better* performance. The previous restriction was just that, a restriction of potential. And whether it's my imagination at work, I believe I *hear* a slight improvement to the sound, which I'd characterise as an enhanced musicality, or sweetness, to the 'instruments'. Slight being the word, imagination a possible.

That report's on the Mozart PRESTO I've been working at, which uses Notion-only samples around the PTQ sounds. While the PRAYER variation from earlier tests out the Miroslav fiddle-group sounds, same (maybe imaginative) conclusion. Courtesy of Jbridge.

ADDED: I should say I *did* install N4 32-bit. Context to which was, during installation you're offered to shift your previous Notion instruments to a new home (no specifics but you presume your *Upgrade*  version, which was my buy, here, was offering a similar package to N3's - where you can install sounds from the previous version, in addition to N3's own sounds but accessed separately from them, when in  Score Setup), so I chose Yes.

And the result of that by itself was a botch, part working but mostly not. Which is why I assume you have to go the same route as your successful install with 64-bit, to get the 32-bit version working fully right.

Custral,

I still haven't had time to explore the new Notion. I haven't even downloaded the sample libraries yet. But my initial impression is that I love the look and feel. Loading vsti's and thus Pianoteq is clean and everything looks straightforward. In about a week I can spend an entire day experimenting.

I have to confess that I'm a little frightened by it. I do not own other orchestral libraries and have no formal training in orchestration. The London Symphony Orchestra is a little intimidating.

One strong initial impression, however: the default room sounds very good with Pianoteq played as a solo instrument. (With the default PT reverb turned off, given the Notion reverb.) I'm not sure that it's a room I will always want to use for my simple piano and vocal things, but it's a good sound, with a very subtle ambiance that I'm hoping will force me into new experiments.