Modartt user forum » Pianoteq user forum » Linear Stretch Tuning of C3 Solo Recording (concert audience reverb)
I never understood the appeal of stretch tuning until I listened to this piece after applying stretch tuning to it. What a delight to hear those bass notes and the grace of those treble notes. Also, improved colour throughout. I personally think it has tremendous advantages over straight tuning for many piano pieces. Any imput/responses greatly appreciated.
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...Tuning.mp3
Chris
I never understood the appeal of stretch tuning until I listened to this piece after applying stretch tuning to it. What a delight to hear those bass notes and the grace of those treble notes. Also, improved colour throughout. I personally think it has tremendous advantages over straight tuning for many piano pieces. Any input/responses greatly appreciated.
Chris
Hello Chris,
As a professional piano tuner, born with absolute pitch, who applies stretched tuning, here are my feelings about stretched tuning:
On a small piano, either an upright or small grand, if zero stretched tuning is applied, when you play double octaves (especially), the overtones will sound as though they undulate (warble slightly). Some people can hear this; others cannot hear it, even when pointed out to them.
The intended usage of stretched tuning is to progressively sharpen the higher octaves as you go upward, in order to minimize or at least tame (even out) the undulations so the final sound is pleasing. Some people describe the tone as "bell-like", even though they cannot specifically state they can tell the degree of stretch that was applied. In a similar manner, the bass notes are usually slightly flattened, in order to keep THEIR overtones in alignment with the middle octave of the piano.
That said, it is also possible (and probably abused *) to "over-stretch" the octaves, such that the upper harmonics' overtones undulate with each other, once again. Some people like it; some people don't hear it and couldn't care less; and other people are annoyed by over stretching. By the way, the undulation I am speaking of is NOT so much in "pitch" than it is of "loudness", due to constructive- and destructive acoustic interference of the sound.
In my own tuning experience, on a typical small grand found in one's home (i.e., less than 6 feet in length), the C above Middle C is normally stretched approximately just over one cent, such that its fundamental frequency matches the Middle C's octave harmonic (Harmonic #2 in Pianoteq).
How much is one cent, you ask? Although the technical answer is "one one-hundredth of a semitone", that answer has no practical meaning to the average musician.
Here is a good measure to remember: At A440, when the tone is raised or lowered by 4 cents, the resulting frequency has been changed by very close to 1 Hertz (either A441 or A439). This means that sharping the C above Middle C by just over 1 cent (say, 1.05 cents), the resulting sound will undulate about 1/4th of a Hertz, or approximately one undulation that completes itself every four seconds. Most people cannot perceive that difference, because the notes die away too quickly for anyone to hear the undulation come around again, full circle.
In conclusion, if you like the the sound of a particularly stretched piano, then so much the better. It may sound more bell-like to some. It may sound out of tune to others. Probably the "improvement" is in the mind of the beholder -- not necessarily a bad thing.
The above is for informational purposes only; there is no intention to "lecture" anyone, and please do not think I am looking down at those who enjoy the effect but who cannot put a finger on what is changing by stretch tuning.
Cheers;
Joe
* An example of stretched tuning abuse: One tuner acquaintance of mine has stated that he simply sets his strobe tuner to be 5 cents higher for each octave after the "break" -- in his terms, the break is where the piano's frame sections off the upper octaves of the piano. His technique is what I call "blind stretching", with zero forethought to how the piano will sound, except that it is stretch tuned. Go figure.
Thank you for your valuable insight Joe. I trained as a piano tuner, but never took it any further. I don't regret that though because at least it trained my ear to hear beats etc.. As I have read the various posts on pianoteq, it is clear to me that there is an incredible science behind the piano and, like midi, you can go as deep as you want to or just paddle in the shallows. To my ear, Joe, there is a richness in the inharmonicity that enhances certain pieces of music. Yes the treble is bell-like and does lack that velvetness that a straight tune creates in the treble. However, the bass gives a lovely (to my ear) warmth when flattened. I will work on my stretch tuning and see what I can come up with (probably nothing new!). I will post the results via musical examples. Thanks again Joe,
Chris
Hi again Joe
Is this close to a correct Stretch?
Hello Chris,
Much of the Chopin Nocturne in the midi file is concentrated in the four central octaves of the piano's keyboard, whereas the effects of stretched tuning become truly noticeable at the extreme ends of the keyboard range. Only towards the middle and the very end of the piece may we hear notes approaching the highest Db chorded octaves.
I don't hear anything wrong with the stretching "per se" in either of this thread's mp3 files you've submitted.
What I DO hear is that the Db bass notes that are played two octaves below middle C seem to have extraordinarily (i.e. unnaturally) long sustaining power. Question for you: Did you widely adjust either the Direct Sound Duration slider and/or the soundboard's Impedance slider? I am reminded of an electronic organ, in a way, because the notes seem not to dissipate in a few seconds of being struck by the virtual hammers.
Another question for you: Going back to those long, sustained Db's -- they sound to me as though these particular notes were placed into a midi sequencer, and someone simply elongated the durations of these particular notes, rather than hitting them like a live pianist would, and then relying on the sustain pedal (or sostenuto pedal) to hold them. But at the same time, the rest of the accompanying notes seem not to be artificially elongated.
Also, when the unison tuning is set to its minimum slider position, the notes also take on super-long sustains. By chance, are the unisons reduced, and the stretch elongated, in addition to adjusting direct sound duration and/or impedance?
As you are aware, I do not know how to write short responses in this forum. If I were to sum up my impressions of this Nocturne, I would notice the extraordinarily long sustains more than anything you are trying to do with stretch tuning.
Cheers,
Joe
Joe
I also hear that Db. It is rather strange isn't it? no una corda pedal used! I haven't altered anything in the preset other than 'concert audience' reverb and the stretch tuning. Other than that it's a factory C3 Solo Recording!
Chris