The Definitive Presets (Page 1 of 2)

Well Andrea - looking forward to listening to 'm and trying them out!
Do remember that your keyboard and the way it behaves can really influence the sound - maybe it's good to also upload some recordings as reference...
Thanx for sharing anyway - I'll try 'm out asap!

cheers
Hans

By the way.....my sound system is actually a Hi Fi system.
Speakers: B&W CM1
2ch Amp: Rotel 04
+ M-Audio Fast Track Pro.
In my opinion studio monitors are less natural and not always perfectly balanced. My speakers deliver a fantastic warm piano sound.

I say this because maybe some of you who use speakers which sound more bright, could find these presets quite open sounding.

Sorry, but I need to be honest. The Bosendorfer preset it's not good. The trebble it's terrible, far from the sound of a true Bosendorfer.

I think we should stop to call FXP adjusts of Steinway, Bosendorfer...    cause visitor, used to good sampled libraries recorded from true instruments may laugh a bit of us.

I must remamber that FXP adjusts do not compare to the great ability of pianoteq in recreate a true piano by analyzing the sound and developing a new piano model.
FXP in this case are trying to modify the sound of a given piano to ressamble another, which it's a complete different thing than a new Modartt piano model.

Andrea:

I have downloaded your presets and am listening to a midi file of mine with the Bosendorfer concert.  I hear nothing inherently wrong with it, however, I have no way of judging its accuracy in mimicing a 290 Bosendorfer as I don't have a reference to compare it to.

I do notice that you have made some large changes to the Equalizer panel.

My first reaction to any large changes in a preset is that the changes may be the result of overcoming deficiencies in one's sound system (one rarely if ever realizes what deficiencies exist - my system although likely reasonably good, will have weakness which I don't know about).  And this doesn't take into account the variable of one's hearing.

So while one hears what one perceives to be a Bosendorfer, it may (and often is) simply covering up the sound system's deficiencies or inaccuracies.

Another thing that I find unusual is the Dynamics value of 100.  I tend to create a large dynamic range when I play compared to many other players, and seldom set this to over 50.  When I play my own very familiar midi file with your fxp, the dynamics seem reasonable, which leads me to suspect that it was set there to overcome something else (perhaps the very unusual Equalizer values).

None of this should be taken as criticism, but a reminder of how much what we perceive to hear is tainted by our systems and our ears.

There is an excellent post by Maestro2be entitled "The Perception of Sound and Its Influence".  If I could, I'd make this a required reading for everyone.

Cheers

Glenn

Yes i agree to you all in a way.
My consistent modify of the EQ is the result of many listenings at these instruments...and i believe the EQ is vital  to form the wanted instrument's timbre. Without it, it would all sound as pianoteq. For this reason, i invite you to really pay attention to the original instrument's timbre and compare it with the preset, because the eq changes are actually what make these fxps so unique and sonically similar to the original. I simpy don't understand users who just set the right string length or whatsoever.....that definitley isn't creating a true fxp.
I notice that my fxps somehow fall short in some parameters which make them slightly unreal.
But mine was an attempt more focused on the timbre, which is usualy left out in other fxps.

I still believe these fxps are ecxellent, though....:)

When I look a the frequency response curve of a set of headphones (for example), the first thing I notice is that it is not linear.

Look at the frequency response curve of my new headphones - these have a quite high rating (and are the headphones that Modartt uses for reference):

http://www.headphone.com/headphones/akg-k-240-mk-ii.php

It is no where near linear.

If the frequency response curve of your headphones is different, then we won't be hearing the same thing.  If our sound cards have a different frequency response, that adds another variable.

I don't have a true reference sample of a Bosendorfer or Steinway to play through my system so I can compare it with your fxp.  So I cannot say if your fxp files are accurate or not.

It's all very subjective.

One other point - none of the presets produced by Modartt have a Dynamics value of 100 - not even close - this makes me suspect that something is wrong with a preset that has Dynamics = 100.

Glenn

And have to know how the recording engineer manipulated the sound during recording and in post processing.   So many variables.

Glenn

Ok then, i know what you mean.
But at  least do you find the Timbre quite similar to a bosendorfer, steinway, yamaha and to an upright????
I'm pretty sure my EQ work DID create a similar timbre to the original.
For example: the yamaha is quite midrangy, the steinway is present in the highs and mid lows and it decreases in the mids, and so on..........right?????

Hahaha....yeah it was supposed to be a success for the innovative use of the EQ in order to emulate the original sound. Well, i suggest you all to, when you have time, listen to these originl instruments (maybe on some recordins, videos or whatever) like i did, and i'm sure you will find more or less the same sound. It's all about listening really, and i do not agree with the complaints about the eq and the timbre's poor linearity, it's simply nonsense.

Ok if you go on itunes........and search the albums, you can find:
Keith Jarret ,the Koln concert- Bosendorfer
Chick corea, expressions- Yamaha
(every chick's other recording features the yamaha)
And for the steinway you can either go on you tube or on the official website of the piano libreries, or even pianists like Lyle Mays, Jarret, Mccoy Tyner use steinways.

For all of the there is this VERY interesting site on libraries comparison:
http://purgatorycreek.com/documents/25.html

I've briefly tried the rest of the presets. I heard the harsh treble problem again in places.

The one I like the most is the Bosendorfer - it sounds natural, and actually does sound very much like the real thing in my opinion!  (looks like I disagree with Beto-Music here)

Greg.

Btw, I am not saying that Andrea's Bosendorfer is in the same class as that iTunes example recording. However, it would be interesting to see what a professional studio engineer could do with this Pianoteq sound.

Also, I do still hear a bit of harshness even in this FXP.  Overall, though, I think it has the Bosendorfer character.

Just as an aside, I remember being very surprised at just how much the Roland SAS Bosendorfer (Piano 2) did resemble the real thing, when I finally heard one. I think of Andrea's effort as being a big improvement to this one.

Greg.

The bass notes in the upright sound excellent - I really like the attacks.   I might say more about the others later.
One thing's for sure - your aggressive marketing ("definitive") really got my attention.

It'd be nice to hear some more comments from others......

Greg.

I tested the upright FXP. The sound is ok, and only complaying is E5 (and around there) be too low. Try the first notes of Fur Elise...

The thing itself, despite of fine, do not sound like a upright. You know, the upright resonance, the wood in the front of your face, sounding in your face, create something that we can't get with pianoteq yet.

On the upright try to:
Set the key release noise at 16
set the hammer noise at 1.80-90
set the impendance on 1.40
on the riverberation set -7 on wetness, 0 on length and 10 on size
Turn the speakers around facing the wall in front of you it works! in a way.....

JUST UPLOADED THE NEW DEFINITIVE UPRIGHT, CHECK IT OUT!
(and remember to turn your speakers facing the wall, if possible)

Here I am anoying againg...

F7 it's quite mad 

  It require a fix.

Andrea, are you using the "Pro" version to make these FXPs?  If not, then I can heartily recommend it to you as a "deep tweaker" fix.  ;^)

I like the "turn your speakers facing the wall" approach -- you have the right idea!  (Of course, I always opened the bottom and top of my upright when I played it...)

well, with my speakers there is no harshness there, which speakers do you use?

A part from that note, i would like to make a consideration.
I said what my audio system is a few posts ago, and i firmly believe that the final step to achieve a real piano sound is to have a proper "reproduction" part. With my system, i really can't ask for more, i mean, the resonance, the presence, dynamics and detail are all really convincing and you can't imagine what pianoteq potentialities actually are. The balance of the tonality and the warmness of my speakers DO really make the difference, not to be annoying, but just to say that  maybe when you mention that pianoteq lacks wood resonance, you may be partially wrong as your speakers may not reveal the actual pianoteq's sound.

Andrea, keep preparing more FXP, you are very good with pianoteq adjustments.

Done.......THE FAZIOLI F308 IS NOW AVAILABLE.........TRY IT!

I like the Fazioli a lot - very bright and clear with none of the objectionable high frequency stuff I've been complaining about whatsoever.  It does remind me VERY much of an electric grand in the middle registers though - not sure how authentic this is. (from what Beto-Music is saying, it may not be authentic - it sounds good though)

Does anyone have some iTunes pointers to good solo Fazioli recordings?

Greg.

Thanks Harald. Yes, I had in fact listened to the Fazioli demo recordings on their website.  (I've emailed them, suggesting they include a list of works, like Bosendorfer do)

Here's a CD recorded on a Fazioli, but it doesn't say which model:
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/lucillechung
It sounds like a typical ambient recording of a piano - not closely mic'd.

Greg.