Reply by skip

  • Avatar
  • skip
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Sydney, Australia
  • Registered: 21-12-2007
  • Posts: 1,059

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

sigasa wrote:

I don't know if Yamaha dislikes this sort of thing - using their actions on different models etc.,...

I'm sure the Yamaha engineers will be secretly hoping that you succeed, as I do - it is frustrating when a company appears to purposely restrict the quality of a product to encourage the purchase of a higher grade product.  This may be a terrible simplification of the situation, I admit, but one can't help but think that there is at least a little bit of this kind of thinking in Yamaha's marketing.  It reminds me of a Top Gear comment about the Porsche Cayman - they said words to the effect that "it is not the best possible car it could be" - meaning that they appeared to have deliberately restricted it's performance so as not to hurt sales of the 911, and also to avoid possibly making a BETTER car than the 911 due to the Cayman having a superior weight distribution.  Um....back to pianos.

I doubt whether Yamaha management would mind, unless thousands of customers start building this custom piano.

Greg.

Last edited by skip (25-12-2009 21:26)

Reply by sigasa

  • Avatar
  • sigasa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 2,014

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

That makes good sense Greg. Yamaha neglected to put the 'best piano action' in their new CP range didn't they! Can you believe it - a premium, not to mention expensive, top of the range stage 'PIANO' without graded hammer effect! Even the bottom-of-the-range CP50 got that (but without the NW-Stage natural wood action etc.). Shame! Had they put the NL2 (NW) in it, it would have been perfect, but they didn't, so it's not! How moronic!

Last edited by sigasa (25-12-2009 22:39)

Reply by moshuajusic

  • Avatar
  • moshuajusic
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 01-12-2008
  • Posts: 257

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Looks like Yamaha is jumping on the modeling bandwagon with these new stage pianos. Though GEM was doing the sampling/modeling combo thing years ago.

I do wonder how the NW and NW-STAGE differ.

Keep us posted! Looks awesome!

http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/images/smilies/santa_smiley.gif

Reply by sigasa

  • Avatar
  • sigasa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 2,014

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Thanks Joshua. I've not found any description of the NW-STAGE on the web yet. Maybe they'll have a dedicated site for the CP range like they do for the Clavinova? In which case they'd probably include info on the keyboard action.

Last edited by sigasa (27-12-2009 10:30)

Reply by lossless

  • Avatar
  • lossless
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 01-01-2010
  • Posts: 4

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Hi Sigasa,

I've read through this thread a number of times, as I have recently purchased Pianoteq, and quickly realized that my synth keyboard simply will not do.

At this point I am thinking of purchasing the Yamaha P-155 and eventually modding it after your example.

Besides preferring the general slab design of the P-series to the more knobby soon-to-be-released CP-series, a practical reason I am interested in the P-155 is that it seems like the flat wood top could support my laptop, for the most part anyway.

And yes, I would also prefer having a graded hammer effect. 

Question:  I don't quite understand how the GHE relates to the keybed that you are replacing.  It sounds like the GHE must be separate from the keybed.  Can you please explain how these two things relate?

Related Question:  Are you sure that the CP series is lacking the GHE, or does this still await confirmation?

- Chris

Reply by sigasa

  • Avatar
  • sigasa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 2,014

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

lossless wrote:

Question:  I don't quite understand how the GHE relates to the keybed that you are replacing.  It sounds like the GHE must be separate from the keybed.  Can you please explain how these two things relate?

Related Question:  Are you sure that the CP series is lacking the GHE, or does this still await confirmation?

The GHE (Graded Hammer Effect) keybed action is the one that comes with the P155. It is a complete unit including hammers and keys etc..

The NW / NL2 also has hammers that are graded i.e. heavier in the base through to lighter in the treble.

It is yet to be confirmed whether or not the NW-STAGE has graded hammers.

_________________________________________________________


Due to repeated dissassembly / reassembly of the P120 and the consequent wear and tear, I have decided to house the NW / NL2 in a new case. I'm not sure yet which option I will choose, but it could be a CP33 which I understand is a very nice instrument? If any of you guys either own or have any experience / knowledge of the CP33, please share it on this thread, thank you.

Last edited by sigasa (01-01-2010 11:56)

Reply by sigasa

  • Avatar
  • sigasa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 2,014

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

I feel so stupid right now!!! I've just tried to connect the NW / NL2 keyboard action to the electronics on my P120 and guess what - yeah, you've guessed it, it don't work!!! More accurately, the electronics are mismatched!!! I haven't got the will to buy additional electronics, a CP33, etc. etc.. Guys, I'm gonna put up my hands and say "it's a fair cop guv!" Now that I know I would have to spend a lot more time and money on trying to get this thing up and running, it appeals to me less and less. I have finally decided to call it a day as far as this project is concerned. Sorry guys! However, I have a brand spanking new NL2 action which will make great spare parts for a - wait for it - CP5? That's presuming (here we go again) that at least some of the NW / NL2 action parts are identicle to those used on the CP5? Who knows? Othewise it will make a nice wall mount! I regret letting all you guys down on this one, my sincerest apologies to all of you. I just can't justify the expense - either in financial terms or in terms of time! Anyhow, if any of you are contemplating modding your keyboard, learn from my mistakes! Do your research even more thoroughly and, more importantly, don't presume on anything!!!

Reply by skip

  • Avatar
  • skip
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Sydney, Australia
  • Registered: 21-12-2007
  • Posts: 1,059

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Bugger. I was really hoping you'd complete this project.

Just a little suggestion: write to Yamaha, and ask for the schematics, and information on how to interface the keyboard, explaining why you are doing what you are doing. They won't help you (well, it would be incredible if they did!), but at least it'll send them a message. 

And for heavens sake, ask them whether or not the damn CP1 and CP5 have graded actions or not.

Greg.

Reply by Glenn NK

  • Avatar
  • Glenn NK
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 09-10-2008
  • Posts: 1,008

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

So sad to hear that Christopher - I too am disappointed that it didn't work for you.

Glenn

__________________________
Procrastination Week has been postponed.  Again.

Reply by hvaartsen

  • Avatar
  • hvaartsen
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: The Netherlands
  • Registered: 13-07-2009
  • Posts: 58

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Hi Christopher,

I'm very sorry to hear that your voyage ended so abruptly. Indeed maybe someone from the technical staff from Yamaha is willing to help you. From my side, I'm still in the process of building my digital piano from scratch using the Fatar keybed to start with. I have got already tons of pictures of the work I've already done. When I'm finished I'll put all images together on my website (including some text of course ;-) ) like a diary. I will post the link for those who are interested to see how much work (hassle) it is to build such piece of hardware....from wood, aluminium, screws, potentiometers, knobs,... up to.... mainboard, PSU, software, etc.

Sometimes it's just like a little battle... :-|

Cheers,
Herman

Last edited by hvaartsen (02-01-2010 19:11)

Reply by sigasa

  • Avatar
  • sigasa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 2,014

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Thanks Herman. All the very best with your project!

Reply by Hung Tran

  • Avatar
  • Hung Tran
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 15-08-2007
  • Posts: 6

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

Hi Christopher,
1.  I got the same need as yours.  (In fact, I have contacted the Yamaha website that you mentioned.  They don't seem nice to me much when they know I would like to customize their product.  They told me that their part mainly sold for replacing.  As a result, no question, no technical support...)
2.  I don't know if following info could help you or not, but I give you anyway:
  a.  There is a small company named "Midi Boutique" giving solutions for customizing/controlling any midi system from human action to electronic signal.  Jordan - owner and techie - over there is very friendly.  He actually answered/replied sereral emails to me.  This is the link to the website:
     http://www.midiboutique.com

  b.  In the website, you can search and find the product of encoding keyboard action to midi signal - with velocity....- under product/midi encoder.  I found a promissing product there:  "mpc88xr - 88 keys keyboard MIDI encoder for positive/passive/negative keying voltage with MIDI Merge input "

  c.  Of course, before you buy anything, you should contact Jordan and explain to him your dream.  He may customize his product to suite your need.  You may need to buy the schematic of the NL2 keybed (if it is available) or the whole instrument schematic and ask him how to connect his product to your keybed.

About my dream:  I would like to have 97 keys keybed to prepare for Borsendofer Imperial piano.  No one is producing that, only 88 keys.  Too bad!

Hope this help.

Reply by feeble

  • Avatar
  • feeble
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Yankton, South Dakota USA
  • Registered: 21-12-2009
  • Posts: 40

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

sigasa:  If you have scrapped this project, are you interested in selling the NL2 keyboard?

Reply by sigasa

  • Avatar
  • sigasa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 2,014

Re: modding P120 Stage Piano

feeble wrote:

sigasa:  If you have scrapped this project, are you interested in selling the NL2 keyboard?

Yamaha refunded me, sorry!

Chris