Topic: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

What I mean is not just the current ability to load a temperament but instead:

1. The ability to use the flat temperament to create stretch files in the Detune pane, and then save them in PianoTeq as templates and call them up.
2. The ability to then see and edit all of the "detuned" notes as they appear on the Detune page according to the saved template, make changes, and save a new template.
3. And to see and retune the actual stretched notes if we use the Stretch slider.

This differs a lot from the similar arrangement we now have:

1. We can use the flat temperament to create new stretch tunings, but we must attach them to a preset, and can only copy the setting to other presets. Cumbersome.
2. We can now load Scala files that we create, but those only have the general temperament, without the many variations that can come from retuning a very few notes. And we can't SEE the "detuning"\stretch in the Detune pane, so we must either have charts on our desk or fly from memory to make adjustments.

I guess what I'm asking for, in a sense, is the ability to see the results of a Scala file retuning in the Detune pane, and then edit the notes in that pane and save them to a template. Perhaps as just a Scala text file. EDIT: Just got an e-mail from Manual Op de Coul, the developer of Scala, who tells me that to create an 88 note scale, just load a full mapping into Scala. So I'm apparently asking that we be able to see and edit and save Scala file tunings in the Detune page.

Don't hate me.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (23-12-2009 21:27)

Re: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

It appears that scala files can indeed have the full range of keyboard notes.  I guess we might have to test to see if pianoteq loads them properly.

I tried to load one that contained 88 notes but the detune window looked pretty funny afterwards.

Might just be another interface issue though.  I think all 88 notes are still there.  The black note lines seem to go away when trying to load that file but they still play just fine.  Strange...

Re: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

sawtooth wrote:

It appears that scala files can indeed have the full range of keyboard notes.  I guess we might have to test to see if pianoteq loads them properly.

I tried to load one that contained 88 notes but the detune window looked pretty funny afterwards.

Might just be another interface issue though.  I think all 88 notes are still there.  The black note lines seem to go away when trying to load that file but they still play just fine.  Strange...

Your Detune pane is showing the changed notes and getting corrupted? Can you post a screen shot?

EDIT: I had said that I thought Scala had to repeat patterns to create a tuning. That is incorrect: create an 88 note scale to tune each note.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (22-12-2009 23:32)

Re: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

Maybe a full 88 keys needs a different kbm mapping file to load properly?

I really have no clue how these things load up.

I'll post the thumbnail of the interface rather than the full size shot...

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4813/pianoteqafter.th.png

This was after loading a scala file that had 88 notes defined.  As I said, maybe a kbm file is also needed to properly load it?

The first note and last notes are still the same but all the black notes have gone away from the chart section and everything got smaller...

All the keys light up the proper column though.

Re: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

EDIT: Just got an e-mail from Manual Op de Coul, the developer of Scala, who tells me to just create an 88 note scale and that:

"Then you probably also want to change the midi mapping, because by
default 1/1 is at note
number 60. That's done with the command
LOAD/MAP piano"

Hm... More and more interesting. Some questions, then:

1. You created an 88 note scale, specifying each freq instead of having the program generate them from an octave, saved it as a Scala file and used it as the scale in PianoTeq?

2. And it plays correctly--plays the pitches that you assigned?

3. Are the correct pitches indicated when you hover le mouse pointer over each bar?

Not sure why the shading for the black keys went away in the display. I think you broke it. (Myabe the Load/Map piano would resolve this?)

Last edited by Jake Johnson (22-12-2009 23:20)

Re: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

Nah, I didn't make a scala myself.  I was simply trying to load one in that I had seen elsewhere.

I was taking a guess since things looked a bit funny that maybe the mapping needed to be changed as well.

Re: Feature request: Ability to save, load, and see full keyboard tunings.

(Oh no, another of my damned long posts.)

If you used a found Scala file, I'm not sure that you used one that tuned each note separately. Most set the temperament on one octave, and then just repeat the pattern across the entire keyboard. Pianos aren't tuned that way, which is why PianoTeq has a stretch that's turned on automatically.

What I've recently learned is that, in some tunings, notes in different octaves reference different partials of other octave's notes, and the stretch in the bass and treble varies a lot according to small changes in how the necessary (in modern, "well-tempered" departures from equal temperament) detuning in the center is distributed. That weighting changes the sound a lot, since the varying stretches it encourages in the bass and\or treble excite different sympathetic resonances--a large stretch in the upper registers, for example, creates a brighter sound in the midrange, too (and I seem to hear the strings more?). A large bass stretch seems to deepen the sound of the middle, but the spread in the middle that encourages the bass stretch puts strong pitch changes at the low end--and it's stretched... A balance, with similar stretches in the bass and treble, or proportionate changes, may work or may create too many resonances and muddy the sound, depending on the amount of detuning, the damper efficiency, and where the cat had kittens.

So...letting us see the actual tuning of a temperament\Scala file in the Detune pane would let us evaluate and change these things on the fly- for example, while listening to a midi file. The limitation, obviously, is that it takes some time to manually enter the data for each pitch. But the alternative is just getting a piano tuned exactly the same way in every octave unless we type the data into the Scala file.  And then we can't see the actual pitches, so it's hard to make changes to the temperament or variations in other octaves without memorizing all of the slight pitch changes or having a chart on our desk. So...the ideal could be to import a Scala file, as we now can, be able to see the repeating temperament and all the other pitch adjustments, make changes there, and to SEE pitches rise if we use the stretch slider, and save all changes to a 88 note tuning Scala file, giving us templates for actual tunings of real pianos. (And be able to see the herz to at least a hundredth and pitch changes to at least a hundredth of a cent...)

Dragon--where are you? I need some support here.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (23-12-2009 21:44)