modding P120 Stage Piano (Page 1 of 2)

From where are you buying this action and how much are you expecting to pay?  I'm broadly happy with my KX8 but thinking of building a hardwood stand for it which won't sway about and rattle in FFF passages.  Ultimately I would like to build an entire digital piano casing with high quality speakers/amplification and a better quality action.

Do you know how the keybed needs to be wired?  I assume it is some sort of  scan matrix?

Good luck!

Neil

That's incredibly cheap considering the cheapest DP with that action costs four times as much... I would be quite happy paying £550 for a cheapo P85 (that's brand new, much less if it's used) and sticking in a nice £460 action to get a portable top-of-the-line action.

So where would you buy it? Directly from Yamaha? Do they sell high-end actions to non-high-end customers?

https://www.yamaha24x7.com/yamahaoms/

However, Joshua Seth has played the Akai MPK88 and he says it has a very good action. It is built like a tank (apparently). It's definately the cheaper option!

If you do purchase the NL2 action, you will need to purchase some electronics aswell if you want to use the damper sensors under the keys. The electronics are expensive (according to a yamaha technician who phoned me yesterday).

Sorry to interrupt. I'm curious.

But a good midi controller, or even simple stage piano with pogressive hammer action, is less expansive than buy actions and sensor.

Real piano actions are great, but the price of the sensor to instal are too high.

Would be possible to use sensor of a very good  progressive hammer action midi controller and adapt to instal in the real piano actions set?

Well, I would expect people distributing Akai to have nice things to say about it!

But I was very impressed. And I've been a Yamaha die-hard for years. Have you tried it yet? I think it feels nicer than pretty much every DP action out there except for the really high end stuff like Kawai's AWA Pro, Roland's PHA, Yamaha's NW, and Fatar's TP40WOOD.

If I had the money and the adventuresome spirit, I'd go for the NW upgrade over the Akai. I think it'd end up costing about the same. The NW is clearly better than the Akai action. And the best part is, you can then tell me exactly how you did it!

Actually, I had forgotten about the fact that only GH3 and NW/NW2 have 3 sensors per key (which helps tremendously for fast repeated notes). Yamaha portable keyboards only have 2 sensors per key. So you would definitely have to use the electronics of a CLP-330 or above. Not only would it be expensive, but I'm not even sure those are designed to fit in portable keyboards...

Or you can wait for Yamaha to get their act together and release a portable DP with NW action.

Yamaha offers the complete 'Keyboard Assembly'. In the search box on the yamaha parts website, key in 'NL2' and you will find it. Choose 'Keyboard assemly' and it will give you the price of the complete keyboard assembly in US Dollars.  It is far cheaper to buy the compltete unit than to build it piece by piece!

I will use electronics from a high end Yamaha CLP or CVP. I will purchase the electronics from the site already mentioned in this thread. I'm not sure exactly how much of the electronics I will need but will let you know when I do.

With regards to Fatar, I have heard a lot of bad press about their products.

My advice - go with the Yamaha NL2, I am!

I've got a Fatar keybed (TP10/MDR) from a doepfer case to start with but will eventually change to the Yamaha depending on your proceedings ;-) I already played the Fatar and have to say it's good for average and slow play but for (very) quick play it is less, but maybe my fingers have to get used to it (muscular-wise) :-) Some keys seem not to respond when playing for example thrills.

Please keep me (us) posted!!!
Thanx,
Herman

Hi guys!

Just been to musicroom (UK) to buy a Wittner tabletop stand and just had to have a play on a Yamaha CLP370M which is a high end model with NL2 Natural Wood action with synthetic ivory keytops. My my my! what a wonderful action! It is absolutely fantastic!!! I had played one about a year or so ago but don't remember it being THIS good! Also from playing it today, I realised that I probably wouldn't need the extra electronics as there seemed to be absolutely no difference offered by the damper sensor! I still had to bring the key up quite a way before being able to depress it again on rapid single note repeats! It could be that the 370 doesn't utilize the damper sensor? Anyone out there know? Having the wooden white keys and different front key locators for both white AND black keys completely eliminates the friction problem inherent on all other Graded Hammer actions that Yamaha use in their digital pianos / keyboards. After playing this action again I would not hesitate to recommend it to any serious pianist who wants a digital piano with authentic action. It certainly beats the Kawai (which uses felts which wear out) or the Fatar TP40/WOOD which has it's own problems (see Joshua Seths post). As soon as February comes round, I'll be ordering an NL2 action and, as I've said before, will keep all you guys posted on the progress. Please, please go try out this beauty of an action and I guarantee you won't be dissapointed!

The keyboard weighs just under 25Kg which is quite heavy, but it is well built.

I don't know yet whether or not I will have to replace the electronics, but will let you know as the project progresses.

Petrof states, "As the mechanism of the MIDI piano is identical with the acoustic instrument, it is necessary to practise a regular service of the MIDI piano, that means its inspection, cleaning and regulation. The service of the MIDI piano has to be done at intervals depending on the play frequency, at least once a year. Only this way you can retain really the same behaviour of the MIDI piano as acoustic piano has."

Piano servicing and regulation can be very expensive. The beauty of using something like a Yamaha digital piano action is that it doesn't need servicing like a conventional piano does. I have worked as a piano tuner/technician and know that things such as felts, strings, springs  etc. do wear over time. Most people realize that digital pianos don't need tuning which is obviously a good selling point, but what many don't realise is that a good digital piano keyboard should need hardly any servicing / maintenance. This may sound strange in view of the fact that I am actually modding my P120, but I am modding mainly because I am not satified with the original action.

Having to arrange a regular service can be extremely inconvenient. It kind of defeats the object of having a digital piano as opposed to a conventional piano. Kawai and their MP8 / MP8II use a real wooden action (not the same as the action on their grands), however this too has felts etc. which wear with regular use. I personally think that the best balance between authenticity and reliabilty is the NL2 Natural Wood action - that's why I've bought one! As mentioned previously in this thread, I've spent untold hours researching digital piano forums, websites, reviews, user reviews, e-mailing manufacturers, piano technicians and stores (both virtual and terrestrial). My NL2 action arrives tomorrow and I will shoot a video demo and post the link on this thread. Those interested, watch this space.

Sigasa:

Keep the posts coming on the progress - what you are doing is very interesting.

There is an interesting thread on pianoworld which is very much related to what you are doing:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre...ost1322048

But over there, everyone is still in love with their new DPs, and generally think the sound is wonderful.  Makes me wonder how many of them actually know what a real piano sounds or plays like.  Some of them tout their samples, but they never seem to brag about playability (maybe they don't actually play the piano?).

Glenn

Before I went into town to pick up the NL2 action,  the paint guy came round and, to cut a long story short, he said it would only cost £100! That includes a base coat of black and three coats of laquer, not to mention the pre spray cleaning and keying and priming he's going to do! I shall also ask him to fix a few dents, scratches etc. and tell him to charge me for that in addition as his quote was so reasonable. His firm is actually a vehicle paint repair company but he was very interested in my request to have a stage piano black laquered! He said that no-one had ever asked him to paint a keyboard in all the 15 years he's been doing that job!

I hope to have a video showing in more detail the NL2 action posted today (Saturday).

Various repairs will be required before priming, painting and laquering.

Glenn

Actually I am using the following company who have agreed to take on the job

http://www.painttechnics.co.uk/index2.p...amp;sub=18

They are a national company in the UK and it just so happens that I live just up the hill from them!

As mentioned on this thread previously, I have already spoken to a guy from this company and he said that what he'll probably do is put three coats of their specail 3rd generation water based laquer over the top of a black base coat. I know they will do a great job as they are very proffesional.

The company uses state of the art paints and laquers to repair paint on cars and motors. It is very interesting to see their website.

Photographs of a complex process are good.  Even though we remember where everything goes.

G

He He He!!!

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but do the new Yamaha stage pianos have an action that is closer to what is desired?  ( http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/stage_pianos/cp1 and others)

Greg.

http://www.planbpianos.com/default.html

I must admit, as soon as I realized Yamaha had brought out these CP's, I thought to myself, 'I've only just bought an NL2 action and Yamaha has only just gone and brought out two brand new stage pianos with the same action!', so I was more than a little relieved to find that, actually, they didn't use the same action! So, all said, I DID do the right thing in purchasing the NL2 to put in the P120 shell!

p.s. for anyone wanting to purchase the NL2 in the UK, the UK price was just under £500. I went to a small music shop that was extremely helpful and also happened to be very interested in the modding project!
I don't know if Yamaha dislikes this sort of thing - using their actions on different models etc., it's certainly a cheaper option for the consumer, but they ought also to see that I've actually paid hard currency for their action anyway, and I bet it didn't cost them £500 to produce! Ok, so I haven't forked out for a high end CLP/CVP but I wouldn't have bought one anyway - it was NL2 or nothing! And if Yamaha DO want me to spend 5-6K on a stage Piano, couldn't they at least include graded 'hammers' as they did on the bottom-of-the-range model (the CP50)?

Anyhow, I'm happy as Larry with the way things turned out. Had the CP1 / CP5 come out a month ago, and I hadn't done thorough research into the Yamaha actions, I would have had a weighted keyboard with no gradation and a very sad look on my face!!!