Hi i'm new to pianoteq (demo version currently) and to keyboard playing in general.
I have a problem with my sustain pedal: it only emits midi signals in a range from 0 to about 114. So I never have full sustain in pianoteq (about 0.9 only). Can I remap the signals so that I get full sustain when using the pedal somehow?
greetings
Yup, download free software called MidiOX.
Ah, sounds usefull.
i will try that.
thank you
(...) I have a problem with my sustain pedal: it only emits midi signals in a range from 0 to about 114.
But this is strange, isn't it? Maybe there is some mechanical barrier so it can't be pressed completely? Or the range might be adjustable, maybe by tweaking some trimpot inside the pedal.
Wow! this is interesting. MIDI and I go back a long way. I was just about to post a reply reminding that sustain pedal MIDI controller messages are usually switches instead of continuous controllers, and usually read that way. In other words, the sustain pedal running through my CME UF 70 keyboard controller outputs either MIDI controller value "0" (off) or "127" (on). The original MIDI spec never defined exactly how off/on was to be transmitted, so generally a MIDI module read "0 as OFF and everything above that as ON. I assumed Pianoteq did the same. Before I posted this I thought I better check, so I assigned a continuous fader to the sustain (damper) pedal and --aha!-- Pianoteq DOES read sustain pedal as a continuously variable event. Very good; I need to experiment with how to use this.
I can still remind folks who are newer to this stuff that a normal sustain pedal (the pedal itself) is only on and off, so it will send only two values to Pianoteq: off and whatever value the controller decides is on. wintermute's post makes perfect sense now, and I assume that MidiOX
can change the controller value to 127. Anyway, thanks to all for a great forum and learning opportunity.
I can still remind folks who are newer to this stuff that a normal sustain pedal (the pedal itself) is only on and off, so it will send only two values to Pianoteq: off and whatever value the controller decides is on. wintermute's post makes perfect sense now, and I assume that MidiOX
can change the controller value to 127. Anyway, thanks to all for a great forum and learning opportunity.
This is only partly true - I'm using my second Roland of the KR series, and both transmit continuous damper control values from zero to 127. There are other keyboards that also transmit continuous values - I believe that many Yamaha models do too.
However, very few of the midi files obtainable from the "net" have more than zero and 127, while a few have three values - 0, 64, and 127 where 64 is often called "half-pedaling".
I have literally hundreds of midi files that I recorded on Roland KR377 and KR7 models - there are segments where there are as many as twenty contiguous pedal controls.
Glenn
Glenn: Hah! I need to stay up with the times. It's been about 12 years since I looked carefully at particular keyboards, or checked MIDI implementations to see how new modules respond. I did some checking and Roland seems to have the lead in making a "sustain" pedal into a continuous control "damper" pedal, with their DP-8 pedal. Some other makers seem to be doing the 3 position half pedal also. Clearly, a continuous controller and a module that can be made compatible are needed, but they're out there. I'll have to pick up a DP-8 and work it into the routine. Thanks much for the info.
Steve:
I am continually surprised by how much more realism continuous damper pedal controls add (although it also takes a bit more horsepower).
With my piano, I can "feather" the sound by just making the dampers (virtual of course) touch the strings lightly (again virtual). I can strike a loud staccato octave in the very low bass - with the damper pedal up - and then a brief moment later, quickly apply the pedal. It will "catch" the vibrating strings. In fact I can quickly press and release the pedal several times and the result is surprisingly like an acoustic grand.
Keep in mind that both of my keyboards were actually digital pianos; the newest one:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/KR-7/
Glenn
EDIT: I use the term digital pianos to differentiate them from keyboards (which are portable). Mine is definitely not portable.
With the arrival of a much more realistic damper model, and taking advantage of the other forum users' experience, I took the plunge and bought a Yamaha FC3 pedal along with the MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller to complement my old Yamaha P80.
The results are very satisfactory, the partial pedalling, while subtle, sounds a lot like real felt dampers slowly separating from the strings.
It was easy to set up from the box simply by reassigning, in Pianoteq's midi option, Controller 7 to the damper and Controller 64 to the soft pedal, and inverting the range for the damper since it is what the FC3 sends. I don't lose my old on-off pedal this way and reassign it to the soft pedal.
The new Sustain pedal velocity map shows that most of the time high values don't reach 127 but stop to about 118-122 which is a lesser evil when the range is from 1 to 0 since we can be sure that the pedal reaches the completely off the strings position (0). To get more range with my setup, I then just have to remove the top control point from the map.
I uploaded at
http://picasaweb.google.ca/gllsprs/Addi...jCw-KwggE#
a couple of photos showing my pedal setup. I use a Quiklok stand
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=produ...ame=WS-550
which is very stable and provides my heuristic solution to the famous NP-Complete Traveling PedalMan Problem (this is an inside joke for computer scientists ) by using a simple small piece of wood with a groove for the wires instead of ugly grey duct tape as I usually see on stages.
The pedal controller is expensive, but very unobtrusive and to my mind the ideal solution for an older keyboard. The existing on/off pedal can then be easily reassigned to the function of our choice.
Gilles, you just made my day! I had an FC-3 pedal lying around, but not being the DIY-soldering type (I can smell the burnt flesh now...), I'd never run into the thought of _inverting_ its polarity -- I just figured that I'd eventually get a Yamaha keyboard that worked with it. (Or a Korg -- I have the DS1H, too, from the days when I was just trying different pedals willy-nilly.)
Lo and behold, all I have to do is right-click on the velocity window, select the "Sustain pedal velocity map," and flip the graph -- voilà! I can now make the goofy pedal do my bidding!!! Take that, you Yamaha schmucks!!!!!
(Well, actually, Pianoteq should get all the credit...)
The thing seems to have a range of only min=18, max=116 (ADDENDUM: Pianoteq pedal values between 0.14 and 0.92), but the curve already accounts for that, and I can adjust it accordingly -- so that the max/min velocities are achieved within these ranges! (I also have to compensate for the visual of seeing the pedal depressed when it's up and vice-versa. Easy enough! Or have I been drinking too much cough syrup this week... %^)
I kinda missed half-pedalling (and was just fudging it with other control forms, like my standard expression pedal, or just entering the value in Pianoteq), but I never really considered it to be all _that_ important. But I'm happy to say that I've finally emerged from the Dark Ages!
(I also have to compensate for the visual of seeing the pedal depressed when it's up and vice-versa. Easy enough! Or have I been drinking too much cough syrup this week... %^)
Glad the post was useful! If you change the range in the pianoteq midi options popup from 0.0->1.0 to 1.0->0.0 instead of inverting the velocity map, the pedal illustration will behave correctly, whatever kind of syrup you drank previously
I might add also that on the photos I submitted, the pedals are too close together, they should be more separated to be playable correctly. I just took the photo before playing.
If you change the range in the pianoteq midi options popup from 0.0->1.0 to 1.0->0.0 instead of inverting the velocity map, the pedal illustration will behave correctly, whatever kind of syrup you drank previously ;)
Ah, nuts! I made this much more difficult than necessary. ;^) Typical!
My roland pedal get all the range of pianoteq damper, even extending the damper effect to maximun on the velocity graphic, and even a small portion of the damper moviment, the physical pressing, is out of the graphic.
Is this portion "out the graphic" real, with midi information, or just a portion with no more informations?
My roland pedal get all the range of pianoteq damper, even extending the damper effect to maximun on the velocity graphic, and even a small portion of the damper moviment, the physical pressing, is out of the graphic.
Is this portion "out the graphic" real, with midi information, or just a portion with no more informations?
Just look at the Midi output in the option panel. It will probably show that this pedal has a shorter, less gradual range, and generates many 0's or 127's at each end of the range.
I think 80% of the pedal physical range fit into pianoteq graphic.
Anyway half pedal in most real pianos it's much more dificult.
Beto-Music wrote:My roland pedal get all the range of pianoteq damper, even extending the damper effect to maximun on the velocity graphic, and even a small portion of the damper moviment, the physical pressing, is out of the graphic.
Is this portion "out the graphic" real, with midi information, or just a portion with no more informations?
Just look at the Midi output in the option panel. It will probably show that this pedal has a shorter, less gradual range, and generates many 0's or 127's at each end of the range.