Hello,
I've been playing with the Pianoteq 3 demo for some time and while I really like it, it seems like there's always a lot of reverb which is muddying up the sound for me (compared to say Logic's pianos). I've turned off the reverb effect, toned down the resonance / string size, but still - not dry enough. Is this not possible or just not possible in the demos? Are the rock pianos drier?
I'm really close to buying this...
Thank you!
C
You are the first person to ever talk about too much reverb even when the reverb is turned off. Sorry to bring up the obvious, but are you sure you don't have reverb within your amplification system, in your plugin chain, ...maybe, in your room...? The sympathetic resonance is only a factor when a sustain pedal is held down... you can also inadvertently click on the sustain pedal icon in the interface and it will stay down until you click it again -could that be the problem ?
Some piano presets have distant miking which you can turn off.
The reverb isn't the best in the world, but as you can turn it off and use whatever other VST reverb you prefer instead, I never see it as a problem.
On the mics page, click on Binaural. (The default presets instead use the mics for recording, and that picks up a lot of room.) You may want to move the head closer to the piano, too.
You might also try using Mic mode and moving the mics in closer.
I actually really really like Pianoteq's reverb, especially the more ambiental, longer decays.
Thanks for the suggestions - they seemed to help a bit. I also noticed I have to lay off the sustain pedal compared to sample libraries. I still find the Pianoteq sound almost muffled compared to Logic's and Kontakt 3's Steinway samples, even when trying the C3 Bright or the M3. I worry if it will be able to cut through the mix on a pop song or a dance track. Maybe the Rock add-on is more appropriate?
Well, the rock is much brighter, of course, but try experimenting some more with the position of the mics and in binaural mode, the position of the head. Placing the head facing and close to the keyboard and slightly to the left of center will bring in more of the bass, of course, and make the instrument seem closer.
And don't neglect the EQ. If you raise higher freqs, you may also want to create a dip in the velocity scale so they don't come in on low strikes. (And then lower the Dynamics so the softer strikes can still be heard after you've created the dip.)
But the rock piano will still give you an entirely different, brighter piano.
Just to throw in my two cents, I absolutely _love_ the rock pianos!!! In fact, I've been spending more time with those than even my beloved vibes lately...
Seriously, the "YC5" model is an _excellent_ cut-through-the-fog piano. The sustain is modifiable through the "Soundboard" items, i.e., impedance and such. (Of course, I am drawn to the sustain pedal like a moth to the flame, but "cloud of sound" is my aim -- much like Charlemagne Palestine, which is why I had to do a double-take when I saw your name. Not too many Charlemagnes floating around these days! ;^)
I don't mind the reverb -- sometimes I turn it off, but this depends on what other effects I may or may not be using at the time. I find the "dry" Rock pianos to mix very well with practically anything.
(...) I also noticed I have to lay off the sustain pedal compared to sample libraries.
This is part of an important difference between Pianoteq and Samplers. Like a real piano and unlike samplers Pianoteq has inner reverb components called "sympathetic resonance" and "global resonance". They emulate the influence between different strings with common harmonics. When the sustain pedal is being pressed, all strings are free to resonate in a cluster that can even reverberate noisy components like hammer noises. So maybe you wish to reduce global resonance (which you couldn't on real pianos). Also you might like to reduce the damping duration (I always reduce it from 1s to about 0,7s). When you release the damper very shortly, the strings are not completely damped and will continue to sound a little bit when sustain is pressed again. No sampler can do these things. You can decide not to like it, but if you just try to consider these effects, you will enjoy pianoteq because of its naturalness.
And come to think of it, experiment with the Piano size parameter, which you must access through the Options\Midi dialog box and assign to a controller. (Not the same thing as String length.) Variations in the size of the cabinet and soundboard will create hugely different amounts of what some programs call resonance, which you may be hearing as reverb (since they sound very similar...).
I'm not saying that you necessarily want to greatly reduce the size of the piano. Slightly different sizes, however, interact with all of the other parameters to create very different sounds--moving the controller you assign one or two steps will give you an entirely different piano. A little frightening, at times, the amount of control you have over the sound as you coordinate all of the parameters.
And come to think of it, experiment with the Piano size parameter, which you must access through the Options\Midi dialog box and assign to a controller. (Not the same thing as String length.)
Thanks for mentioning this, Jake -- I had forgotten all about it!
Thanks for all the tips - I will try those out tonight. One question, to qualify for the free Rock add-on promotion, do I have to buy Pianoteq from this site or can I buy it from another online retailer?
I see no need to have another online retailer.
I think only pianoteq website sells online.
Thanks for all the tips - I will try those out tonight. One question, to qualify for the free Rock add-on promotion, do I have to buy Pianoteq from this site or can I buy it from another online retailer?
Actually, there are multiple other online retailers that sell Pianoteq - and for much cheaper (at least in US dollars - 249 Euros = 355 USD, while online retailers are selling it for 279 USD).
By the way, here is an interesting comparison between some virtual pianos (all sample libraries except Pianoteq). www.proaudiovault.com/comparisons/piano-libraries-ff.mp3 I think it illustrates what I was hearing - Pianoteq seems slightly muddy in that recording with not as much crispness and clarity as the other ones. The tone sounds good to me, but the notes seem to run into each other compared to the sample libraries - probably due to the sustain and resonance settings. I'm not sure how much (if any) tweaking these guys did though.
This is the same piece played live on a real piano - http://www.proaudiovault.com/comparison...ces-ff.mp3 - they still have the edge in my opinion. Even some of the sample libraries had some weird high frequency stuff going on compared to the real recording. The Garritan Steinway and Ivory were the best in my opinion.
I'm really amazed with all the tweaking possibilities with Pianoteq though - that piano size tip really was impressive.
Monsieur Charlemagne:
One must keep in mind that when a developer of samples/whatever compares their product to others, they will not tweak the competitions' sounds to produce the best sound as they do with their own.
As soon as I heard the voice, I knew who produced the comparison mp3 - Bluthner Digital Model One. They have had these on their site for ages, although this particular mp3 is a newer one than I heard a year ago. Of course it is Chopin's Scherzo Opus 31.
The mp3 that I DL'd last year was certainly using Pianoteq 2, not Pianoteq 3, and I doubt that this newest one used Pianoteq 3.05 (which we are all using, and is undoubtedly much better than even the first issue of 3.0).
Glenn
Oops! Didn't realize this was a sample developer's site - I thought it was just an independent comparison. Guess it makes sense that they liked Bluthner the best!
I'm ready to pick up Pianoteq now - any ideas on my earlier question on whether the Rock Add-on promotion is only applicable if I purchase from www.pianoteq.com?
I'm ready to pick up Pianoteq now - any ideas on my earlier question on whether the Rock Add-on promotion is only applicable if I purchase from www.pianoteq.com?
The promotion is applicable everywhere and concerns all who activate their licence before the end of this month. So you can go ahead purchasing from any dealer. If a dealer does not have Pianoteq in stock, he can order from the distributor - complete list here.
I received my boxed copy of Pianoteq 3 today - how do I get access to the Rock add-on? I see the Rock add-on activated in the user area, but I'm not sure where to download it from.
Thank you,
C
You do not download it, it's built right into the latest Pianoteq version, 3.0.5. You need to activate it from the user interface, which is fairly easy to do.
Any instructions on where or how would be greatly appreciated.
- Click on the "Options" button (in the top right-hand corner)
- Click "Add-ons"
- Click the menu button for the YC5 add-on, which allows you to buy
it, or if you've already bought it from the website, enter the serial number.
Greg.
Thank you!