Topic by tho

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Topic: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

I have a behringer BCR 2000 controller that I want to use to control parameters in pianoteq.  There is a behringer BCR 2000 open source plugin that was written for sonar that allows control of VSTI parameters in full dupex (i.e. the midi values are sent back to the controller so that it adjusts to changes made with the mouse.)  When I did this for Pianoteq the plugin autoamtically assigned midi controller numbers to all the editable parameters allowing me to adjust all parameters via the BCR 2000 controller.

What was very interesting is that it also assigned controller numbers to the points on both the eq and velocity curves letting me control the curve points and segments via the knobs on the BCR 2000.

I would like to be able to assign midi controllers to these curves without this plugin so that I can do the samething while running pianoteq in standalone mode.  Is this possible?  I do not see the parameters under the midi options to control these points or segments between points?


As a second question,  it does not appear that pianoteq sends midi data back to the controller to allow the BCR 2000 to adjust based on changes made with the mouse.  (i.e. values will jump if they do not match between pianoteq as soon as the controller knobs are moved.)  Will this feature be available in a future release?

Thank you

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

For question 1:

1. Right-click on the dot for the eq or velocity point that you want to control.
2. Click on "Edit this control point"
3. Click on "Midi Automation" for the aspect that you want to control.
4. Click on "Assign Midi Control"
5. Move the slider\knob on the Behringer

I don't know the answer to the second question. Let us know how the Behringer works out.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (27-07-2009 03:46)

Reply by ReBased

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

re. 2), I'm just trying the same thing with a Behringer BFC-2000 MIDI controller, and as you said, Pianoteq doesn't seem to be sending out MIDI data for changes to assigned parameters. 

You don't just need this for the hardware controller device to respond to user GUI changes, but also so that the device controls are correctly updated when you change presets - without that the controller isn't much use.

For example, say I assign a hardware fader to control a spectrum component.  When I move that spectrum slider in the GUI with the mouse, the device isn't updated.  Same story when I change to another preset.  So if I touch the hardware fader now, it will reset the spectrum to what it was before, that's no good.

@Modartt, can you enable MIDI ouput for assigned parameters based on user changes (GUI & loading presets) in a future version?

(BTW, this 'parameter feedback' is even more useful on my BFC2000 as it has motorized faders, but it's important for all hardware MIDI controllers).

Last edited by ReBased (01-05-2010 05:37)

Reply by julien

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

No, we have no plans for enabling midi output in the standalone, I think the best option is to use the berhinger plugin to do that.

To be honest, I don't know any other software instrument that does such a thing (send midi messages when knobs on its interface are changed), is there any ?

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Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

I'm not sure that I understand the problem. If you assign a knob or slider to a midi cc, that cc for the slider will remain constant for all of the presets. Do you mean that you want the physical slider on the Behringer to move when you move the virtual slider in PianoTeq or change presets?

Reply by tho

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

Do you mean that you want the physical slider on the Behringer to move when you move the virtual slider in PianoTeq or change presets?

Yes, otherwise whenever you move a slider it will jump to the location of the first midi message sent.

And yes Julien I have not found any vst instruments that send midi messages when a parameter is changed i.e parameter feedback.  Ideally a host program would allow such feedback but I have not found one that does.  With all the controllers sold that have faders and knobs for adjusting instruments I am surprised that parameter feedback is not a more talked about subject, otherwise how does one stop a parameter from jumping if it has been changed using the mouse.

Thanks for the replies

Reply by iaoranaemaeva

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

tho wrote:

With all the controllers sold that have faders and knobs for adjusting instruments I am surprised that parameter feedback is not a more talked about subject, otherwise how does one stop a parameter from jumping if it has been changed using the mouse.

When MIDI was created, 30 years ago, it was essentially unidirectional (from a controller to a synth), with only a few dialogs to initiate exchanges (Inquiry, Dump Requests etc.), and everybody got accustomed to that...

Now many instruments (e.g. arrangers, even the high end Korg Pa2X) have no command to read their internal state (parameters) from outside, and their sliders are not motorized either...

IMHO, there is really a need for replacing the old MIDI standard with something modern, more interactive... I fear I won't be still alive when it becomes operational

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Reply by teamsterjim

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Re: Controlling pianoteq parameters with behringer BCR2000

OSC w/ parallel MIDI is ideal, but still unecessary IMHO.
I can make my own custom devices for MIDI using Bidule and Scope DSPs' SDK.
One only needs a MIDI Solutions F8, with 2 x FC7's, 2 x FC5's and 4 x FC4's.
This is a common live set up and can control anything it is assigned to.
I use the 4 x footswitch pedals for changing keyswitched articulations while I perform since I use both hands to play.
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodf8.htm
Also having snapshot capabilities and Mute All Controllers is vital for realtime control.
My racks are always 20-30 feet away and the only time I even use the LCD is to boot the apps, and then set 10 x 12" Meters for my FOH/Monitor sends.
Just like many of us practiced Classical Piano in the dark with a silent blinking metronome, these days we do the same thing w/o the use of an LCD.
The continued breastfeeding of staring at an LCD only delays the comprehension needed to excell at a chosen application.
So while I would enjoy a newer, more efficient protocol, I still feel that many haven't even come close to mastering MIDI yet.
The same applies to 32bit apps.
I purge sampled content and maximise my RAM by using 16bit whenever possible for recording or performing.
The idea of these 200GB Piano VSTi's, that still can't provide a Sostenuto pedal are aimed at the consumer/sequencer crowd.
With an F8, I can have a Sustain Pedal, w/ a footwitch velcroed to the top. I can rock back and forth fom Sotenuto to Sustain and then quickly turn that dual MIDI CC config to a sustain and note on/off for a Keyswitched Articulation of staccatto trumpets to section shakes....etc.
What more can a guy ask for..............?
Maybe some more pretty pictures of old Steinway Grand Pianos that sound nothing like a real Piano...................???
Ahh....that's for the bedroom pro's.

Hardware Analog, DSP, PhysMod. VSTi Romplers....