Topic by londoner

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Topic: Sound card advice required

Hi all,

I've just bought the Pianoteq software to improve the quality of a pretty old Clavinova CLP-950, and it is an absolute revelation - so first of all, a big thank you to all at Modartt for such a wonderful product. I would unconditionally recommend it.

I'm running Pianoteq through a newish high-end Dell with Core2 Duo P8400 CPU, an EMU 0202 USB external sound card, and a pair of (old) Sennheiser HD570s plugged directly into the sound card itself. I also have a line into the Clavinovas internal amp & speakers.

Although the sound is incomparably improved over the old Clav's internals, I've noticed a residual slight fuzziness with some notes, particularly in the octave below middle C, even on the headphones.

The Pianoteq sampling is at 48k, the EMU at 96k, and its running off its own ASIO drivers. Do any of you have any observations about the card itself, which is at the cheaper end of mid-range. Should I be trying other more expensive sound cards, and if so, any recommendations?

Thanks to all of you for any help or advice you may have...

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Sound card advice required

you would first have to run your EMU at the same sample rate as Pianoteq, maybe this will be enough.

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Reply by Glenn NK

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Re: Sound card advice required

I'm not convinced that there is a practical advantage in using such high sample rates.  I use an EMU 1820M, and no one that has listened to my setup can tell I'm using 44.1 for everything (Pianoteq and EMU).

Very high rates have the disadvantage of producing very large files on your HDD without a corresponding gain in fidelity.  This is surely true if you plan on burning to CD where 44.1 is still the standard.

And if you convert to mp3's, keep in mind that during the mp3 conversion, all frequencies above 16 kHz are removed.

I think the advice about using the same rates for the whole system is good.  Don't mix sample rates.


Glenn

Last edited by Glenn NK (18-04-2009 16:36)
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Reply by sigasa

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Re: Sound card advice required

Hi Londoner

I actually own the same soundcard you do (E-MU 0202 USB)! My first piece of advice would be DON'T GET RID OF IT!  I run pianoteq through it and obtain excellent results. I use 44.1 on the card and 44.1 in pianoteq. Second, this may sound silly, but do you have the latest drivers? What keyboard do you use? Have you tried changing the velocity preset to 'moderately slow keyboard'? This can brighten things up somewhat. I must admit, I now use the 'moderately slow keyboard' preset with my Yamaha P120 and it definately irons out any "fluffiness". I would experiment for a while before deciding whether or not to fork out for an alternative sound card! The E-MU soundcards are excellent value for money and very reliable so I would hang on to yours if I were you, even if you do opt for a different card in the end. Finally, I must be honest, I'm really very happy with the sound I get with pianoteq using my 0202 and suggest you try these suggestions?

all the best

sigasa LINCOLN UK

Reply by londoner

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Re: Sound card advice required

Hi all,

Just a quick note to thank you for your help.

I've reduced the sample rate to 44.1 and upgraded the drivers/firmware for the sound card, but still have this slightly intrusive fuzziness. Nevertheless the sound is very much improved over the original, and it is reassuring to have the E-MU card recommended.

If any future poster knows of a solution to the fuzzy sound, then let us all know! In the meantime, thanks once again.

Reply by Brookston

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Re: Sound card advice required

Looking at pictures of the e-mu 0202 it doesn't appear that there are midi inputs.  My question is, how do you hook your keyboard to the soundcard then?

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Sound card advice required

midi to USB interface!

I use an E-MU Xmidi

Reply by Brookston

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Re: Sound card advice required

Alright then let me see if the gerbils in my head have got this right then...

You have 2 options when setting up the system:

1- Go from the keyboard to the computer with a midi to usb cable, then your sound card is just where you get the sound out of.

2- Go from the keyboard to an external sound card with midi in capability.  Then the midi messages goes into the computer through the sound card, and then the sound comes out again through the sound card as well.

Yes?????

If so, what is the lower latency of the two ways of doing it, assuming a USB external sound card???

Reply by skip

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Re: Sound card advice required

The HD570s are a high impedance headphone, and it's possible that the soundcard can't drive them properly, although it's unlikely because they're not THAT high impedance.  Still, it might be worth trying a different pair of headphones to rule it out.

Greg.

Reply by Mark Williams

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Re: Sound card advice required

sigasa,

I certainly think it's worth it to audition another audio interface. A lot of places will let you have a 24- or 48-hour trial period with the piece back at your studio.

I haven't heard the EMU myself, so I really can't comment on that, but I do know that I hear a tremendous difference from one audio interface to another, and it's quite possible you're hearing something that simply isn't to your taste with your EMU.

How do things sound to you when listening to mixes through the EMU? Especially solo piano pieces, since that's what it sounds like you're primarily interested in right now. Listen very critically to other songs through your EMU and see if there's a sonic signature you're hearing that you don't like.

And obviously, skip's comment about trying different headphones is the first place to look.

Cheers,

Mark

M1 Mac Mini | Metric Halo ULN-8 | Pianoteq 7.4.2

Reply by londoner

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Re: Sound card advice required

Hi all,

Many thanks to all of you for your help - and sorry not to have responded to this sooner, as I've been away for a few weeks.

I finally sorted this by replacing the HD570s with a pair of HD595s. This has removed the fuzziness, but at a slight cost in that the HD570s sounded much warmer and with a better bass response than the 595s. But I'm well pleased to be rid of the fuzziness!

I don't know whether the HD570s were incompatible, or simply too old - but I could also hear a slight fuzziness when I plugged them into an ipod, so it was probably age?

Thanks once again..

Reply by skip

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Re: Sound card advice required

Good news!

The HD570s colour the sound more than the HD595, so maybe the "fuzziness" was due to the 570's emphasisng the high frequencies.
(I've seen reviewers comment that the 570s do have too much treble)
That said, I have the 570s, and think they sound very good, and I've never noticed any problems with "fuzziness" with anything.  These headphones sound like loudspeakers to me - I love them.

EDIT: I think it's more likely that they could be either a) damaged, or b) a foreign object has managed to get inside the headphone and is causing a bit of a "buzz".  I think the latter has actually happened to mine on one occasion  - when I tapped the offending headphone, the sound went away. (you might like to try this!) I didn't think of this until just now - sorry.

Greg.
p.s I now use reference quality Akai K601 headphones, however I'm not tossing the 570s.

Last edited by skip (29-07-2009 14:08)