Topic by skip

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Topic: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

I'm finding that the repetition rate of low notes isn't fast enough for a song I'm trying to play. To be more precise - I think it's the modelling of the hammer inertia. If I do a very quick "double stab", the first note sounds ok, but the second note sounds too quiet.

Now, this could well be 100% authentic - I don't know. Has anyone else come across this issue? If it is authentic, I think I would like to have some control over this parameter.

No problems whatsoever with C2.

It's actually the bass (synth) line of a pop song I'm trying to play,  so I guess I want the piano to behave less like a piano and more like a synth.   Haven't ever come across this problem until Pianoteq C3 though.

Greg.

Last edited by skip (18-06-2009 02:31)

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

A real, piano it's probably like that, more or less accoding the model or brand. I think it varies according to the action mechanism of each piano.

Anyway, is the latency of your controller ok?

Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

Yes, latency in general is fine, and besides, I haven't noticed this characteristic with the other Pianoteq pianos yet.   But yes, it could be authentic.

I'm actually noticing a sort of general sluggishness as well, I've decided, and again - it's *only* when playing C3. It's as if it can't quite kee up - the latency sounds like it's *sometimes* higher than it should be.  I didn't notice this when I first tried V3 so I'm a bit puzzled.  I'm pretty confident that I don't have other processes causing the problem.
I don't think *this* is authentic.


System: P4 2.4GHz, ASIO, sample rate: 44100, buffer size 128, polyphony: 48.

Greg.

Last edited by skip (19-06-2009 02:14)

Reply by Glenn NK

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

Skip:

Are you using C3 Recording or C3 Binaural?

The more microphones, the more horsepower required - C3 with four or five mics is a hog.

Glenn

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Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

Stereophonic (yes, to save cycles)

Next question?

Greg.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

skip wrote:

I'm finding that the repetition rate of low notes isn't fast enough for a song I'm trying to play. To be more precise - I think it's the modelling of the hammer inertia. If I do a very quick "double stab", the first note sounds ok, but the second note sounds too quiet.
Greg.

Greg, I tested by editing a midi file that I sent to the C3, and could get a distinct repetition down to 1/20 sec (but it's quite difficult to do properly through the keyboard ) when the second note was louder than the first one. When it was less loud, then it was masked by the first one, which does not seem very surprising. Maybe you could send me by email a short midi file showing the problem?

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

Thanks Guillaume - will do. Maybe it's just a velocity response issue with my configuration.

Greg.

Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

guillaume wrote:

When it was less loud, then it was masked by the first one, which does not seem very surprising. Maybe you could send me by email a short midi file showing the problem?

Ok! I think I have worked out what's going on, and I don't think I need to send you a MIDI file.  As you have said, the second note can be less loud than the first, and that is the issue I have.

I first tried disabling velocity altogether on my keyboard (should have done that a lot earlier), to see whether I could still reproduce the problem, and yes, I could. 

Then, I reduced the release time (Damping Duration) to zero, and voila - the problem went away. 

Is Pianoteq modelling the "deadening" that can occur with repeated notes?  I.e, a hammer striking a string that is *alread* vibrating may cause the sound to diminish, depending on the precise phase of the string's vibration.   

Whatever the case, the music I am trying to play really calls for a fast release time, so that's the simple solution to my problem. (it'll be better if/when we have region control over this kind of thing though, of course)

Regarding the other issue regarding a general sluggishness, I'll be damned if I can reproduce that at the moment, so I'm going to withdraw this complaint for now.

Greg.
p.s It's the synthy bass line from Britney Spear's "Womaniser" that I am trying to play. I wonder whether Modarrt will continue to support me after admitting this. ;^)

Last edited by skip (23-06-2009 02:37)

Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

Just an update to this issue - I tried playing the same thing on a few real pianos. The grands handled it with ease.  The uprights also handled it, but it took more concious effort.

Greg.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

skip wrote:

Is Pianoteq modelling the "deadening" that can occur with repeated notes?  I.e, a hammer striking a string that is *alread* vibrating may cause the sound to diminish, depending on the precise phase of the string's vibration.

Yes Greg, it as exactly like you say, the deadening is modelled and depends on the string state, that is, on whether the hammer strikes the string as it is moving up or down.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

Thanks again. I do wonder whether this characteristic may have been a *little* overdone for the low notes, though, at least on the C3 instrument. ;^)

Greg.

Reply by skip

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Re: C3 repetition rate of bass notes

This problem appears to have been fixed in V3.5 - I can no longer reproduce it. Rapid repeated notes in the bass registers now have seperately clearly audible attacks.

Greg.