16,000 versus 128....MIDI CC #88

I don't think you will hear much difference using hires velocity switching. Where you will get the benefit of the hires standard is using the modulation wheel (CC1) and other controllers to change things like filter frequency. Without the benefit of a smoothing process (dezipper) in a synth you can hear definite jumps when going through the 128 step range.

There are a lot of places where there will be little benefit to using hires, but I can see some logic in standardising midi messages to all work at the same resolution of 16,384 steps.

Sorry to bump an old topic, especially on my first post; but the VAX77 keyboard supports High Resolution Velocity CC#88. Given the expressive capabilities (and lack of sample-based velocity switching) of the Pianoteq instrument, would it be an advantage to implement this in a future update?

Hey Doug,

Yes, I did get a VAX77 last month, and sold my MIDIBoard (rev 3.0) to someone in Edmonton. To put it simply, I don't miss my MIDIBoard at all- it is nice to have a smaller, lighter, modern keyboard with excellent polyphonic aftertouch. The people here will want to know about its suitability as a piano controller:

The keys are textured, and feel expensive- more like ivory than plastic. They are weighted, though lighter (I have the Heavy version) than a real piano. The action is still pretty firm, but there is no escapement bump. However when playing Pianoteq, your brain automatically adjusts to the slightly different feel, and you can play very expressively- I am very happy with the piano feel, though if it were just a bit heavier it would be perfect. The action is very fast- I can play things like the intro to Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" without any problems. If someone were looking for a perfect piano controller, they would be better off with a dedicated 88 key instrument that tries to exactly duplicate a piano action. The VAX77 has the advantage of being smaller and lighter, and can also be used effectively for synth/organ.

Another cool discovery- the VAX77 has an 8va button that allows you to get to the top octave that is missing in a 76 key controller. Infinite Response warns you not to hit the button while you have notes sustaining, but I have found that switching octaves while playing Pianoteq is no problem. I am going to try to convince IR to make the 8va function part of the footswitch options so that you can just touch a pedal to reach that last octave without missing a beat.

Overall I am extremely happy with it- much more manageable than the MIDIBoard, with more modern implementation and better polyphonic aftertouch. Very expressive for piano, while still being fast enough for organ/synth.

No shortage of lead in the MIDIBOARD. Maybe you could remove the weights and replace them with plutonium.

And thanks a lot for the review, Marzz! I have to justify the cost and that won't happen this year, but I think there's a VAX 77 in my future.

who needs lead? tungsten is quite heavy

I envy you marzzz.
I played the VAX @ NAMM 2009 and it had too many cons vrs. pros, but in 2010 the 2 most annoying cons were addressed and the VAX is the controller to get IMO.
The various levels of velocity from 0-16000 are perfect for live player as I can now get the dynamics that only a sequencer could achieve.
THe best controllers are only capable of so many triggered velocities, but the VAX doubles that which means ppp-sfz and 6-8 levels in between can be achieved live.
I cant wait to try one again at NAMM 2011.
Maybe the 8va will be working.
Can you imagine if the VAX had the external RGB like the old Roland 700 series had...?

Jim-

I have to agree, when I tried the VAX at NAMM 2009 I was greatly disappointed- the action was just terrible and there were a lot of problems with software, fit and finish, etc.; To their great credit, Glenn and Van at Infinite Response listened to all the criticism (as well as took on Eddie Jobson as a consultant) and completely redesigned it in less than a year. At NAMM 2010 I was completely blown away by the improvements, and bought one as soon as I was able (see above).

The 8va footpedal is in the latest Firmware update that was released a couple of weeks ago- it works fantastically, you just touch and hold the pedal to jump up and grab that last octave- it is very seamless and with a little practice becomes second nature. It was very cool of IR to implement this suggestion so quickly- they are really open to feedback from customers.

In all honesty a real Pianist can make it happen on a junk controller.
How many recitals or gigs did we have to walk in cold and perform on a brand new stiff Yamaha, or play an ancient Baldwin where the action was inconsistant.
Perfect piano action hardly exists on any keybed IMHO.
You either make music or excuses.
I have to play complicated dynamic pieces on my junk KS88's whenever someone asks for certain material, and sure, I would love " perfect " action but I have never even seen that on a real acoustic let alone a CHinese junkwagon.
But PolyAT is way more exciting than another yawn, yawn, " Piano Controller "..........
We PTeq guys dont know how good we have it actually.
A developer that actually looked down to the floor and said ? wow,....there's 3 x pedals down there........
Imagine that in the 2TB massive sampled multi hundred dollar pianos.
NOT.........................

I still look forward to the Modartt Upright....
I have a nice tweaked. detuned excessive hammered version that works pretty well.
But these guys will eventually make the Chickering Upright or something great and then my virtual life should be complete.
At least until next year....

But I will see the VAX again this year at NAMM, and most likely anger my family by buying one instead of a new HDMI HD Big screen....
THe pain we musicians must suffer for our gear..

I pay 1 dollar to anyone who can notice a difference from velocity 15999 to 16000.

:-)

I doubt anyone would notice change even with 128 velocities...

The main problem is the limited maximum strike velocity in many digital pianos. Like you plave hard and get already the maximum midi velocty, and if play harder than that get just the same, cause the first strike was already in the limit of sensor range.

Sensor rangeris a problem in the top of list, if compared with a 128 velocities limitation.

What we need is someone with Pianoteq (which hears the new std) and a VAX (which sends it) and turn the feature off and on in Pianoteq randomly. If either the audience or the player can consistently hear/feel the difference then it's a valid spec. If not it's either not useful or there's a problem with either Pianoteq or the VAX.

I have Pianoteq--if someone will buy me a VAX, I'd be glad to perform the experiment.

Randomizing indeed occurs in real pianos.  If we repeated a key, the small temperature change from touch and wood frixion in keys, will affect the atrict and change a bit the responde to a given finger touch, even than just a very tinny bit.
And as the action it's imperfect, any micro variation of position of a piece from one moment to other, can alter the velocity response.  Also the vibration of piano body... and other factors...

I supose it's not a bad idea introduce some very minnor random variation, in velocityt response, to pianoteq, as a function to enable or not.  But need to be very tinny random, cause a competitor (true piano or other like) had a ramdom variation that was a complete mess, too strong, disruptive...

Unless a crazy piano fanatic come here and request pianoteq to emulate the aerodynamic of hammer inside the piano, and how fast repetition influence the air drag in the hammer, to affect the velocityt response...