Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

jcfelice88keys wrote:

A few years ago, I was tuning a Petrof grand piano, and noticed something interesting about its nameplate:

Are you aware that, if you spell Petrof backwards, you get ForteP  (as in fortepiano)???  I told this to one of the international Petrof representatives at a recent NAMM show -- he laughed, and stated that no one had said that to him before!

Cheers,

Joe

Excellent!

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

jcfelice88keys wrote:

A few years ago, I was tuning a Petrof grand piano, and noticed something interesting about its nameplate: Are you aware that, if you spell Petrof backwards, you get ForteP  (as in fortepiano)???  I told this to one of the international Petrof representatives at a recent NAMM show -- he laughed, and stated that no one had said that to him before!

Really cool observation!  We never noticed...

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

Beto-Music wrote:

A question, for people who already played many great grand piano brands, and many high quality digital baby grand pianos.

Putting by side the playing for a second...  Is the sound dispersion, the sound system of digital baby grand pianos, really like the sound disperion of a real grand piano ?


Hello Beto-Music

In a word, the answer to your question is an resounding "No!"

The origin of the sound is in front of you, as you are seated at the piano (presumably with the lid raised), but it is an indirect sound as opposed to the direct sound dispersion of a set of loudspeakers.  Interestingly, when you are seated at a 7' to 9' grand, the hammers' noises are a few feet in front of you, and noticeably below your seated ear height.

I am amazed at how many of my students, on whom I teach on a Steinway or Kawai grand, are overwhelmed by the intensity of the sound.  This includes students who own digital pianos such as a Yamaha Clavinova, or an electronic keyboard connected to monitor speakers.

You are also aware that the reflections from the raised piano lid make additional sounds be heard from overhead as you are seated at the piano.

On large, excellent-quality grands, the sound can be very loud, but not loud in the way a pair of smallish speakers seem to "scream" at you!

You are aware of the location of the hammers' impacts, which is often a few to several feet in front of the actual musical sound emitted from a large grand.

Depending on whether your piano is placed on a carpeted vs. wooden vs. tiled floor, you will immediately sense differences in the way the sounds emanate from below the soundboard -- literally in front of your knees.

If you are playing in any room larger than a recording studio, you will immediately sense the direct sounds coming from the piano case, itself;  accordingly, the reverb you will hear (including early room reflections as well as longer, delayed reverb tails) will be perceived as coming from everywhere except the piano!!

Hopefully these recollections will help you grasp a visceral feeling of when you sit down and play a very good, large acoustic grand piano.


Cheers,


Joe

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

Maybe someone with dyslexia have found that before you.

;-)

jcfelice88keys wrote:

A few years ago, I was tuning a Petrof grand piano, and noticed something interesting about its nameplate:

Are you aware that, if you spell Petrof backwards, you get ForteP  (as in fortepiano)???  I told this to one of the international Petrof representatives at a recent NAMM show -- he laughed, and stated that no one had said that to him before!

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by Beto-Music (09-07-2012 21:43)

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

Thanks Joe.

I played some grands, but it was not in a decent acoustic place, neider were in great shape.

Roland claimed that RG-7 (digital grand piano)has some "scaps" to try simulate the sound feeling from a real grand.

I once imagined separated speakers (low power) to sound noises, as for hammer, to a digital piano.  But now you comment about sound reflecting on the ground, it would be near insane to manufacturers to put speakers everywhwere.


What about the Kaway digital piano that uses a real soundboard ? 
Ok, it simulates a small upright... but perhaps have the most natural sound dispercion for a digital piano.

Uhhnnn... Why any grand digital piano tried to do something similar, using a real soundboard (with transducers) ?

Someone once said that acoustic pianos was a species in extintion process, due digital pianos became popular and getting progress in quality.  But until the sound dispersion problem be solved, a fine real grand piano can't be replaced.


jcfelice88keys wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

A question, for people who already played many great grand piano brands, and many high quality digital baby grand pianos.

Putting by side the playing for a second...  Is the sound dispersion, the sound system of digital baby grand pianos, really like the sound disperion of a real grand piano ?


Hello Beto-Music

In a word, the answer to your question is an resounding "No!"

The origin of the sound is in front of you, as you are seated at the piano (presumably with the lid raised), but it is an indirect sound as opposed to the direct sound dispersion of a set of loudspeakers.  Interestingly, when you are seated at a 7' to 9' grand, the hammers' noises are a few feet in front of you, and noticeably below your seated ear height.

I am amazed at how many of my students, on whom I teach on a Steinway or Kawai grand, are overwhelmed by the intensity of the sound.  This includes students who own digital pianos such as a Yamaha Clavinova, or an electronic keyboard connected to monitor speakers.

You are also aware that the reflections from the raised piano lid make additional sounds be heard from overhead as you are seated at the piano.

On large, excellent-quality grands, the sound can be very loud, but not loud in the way a pair of smallish speakers seem to "scream" at you!

You are aware of the location of the hammers' impacts, which is often a few to several feet in front of the actual musical sound emitted from a large grand.

Depending on whether your piano is placed on a carpeted vs. wooden vs. tiled floor, you will immediately sense differences in the way the sounds emanate from below the soundboard -- literally in front of your knees.

If you are playing in any room larger than a recording studio, you will immediately sense the direct sounds coming from the piano case, itself;  accordingly, the reverb you will hear (including early room reflections as well as longer, delayed reverb tails) will be perceived as coming from everywhere except the piano!!

Hopefully these recollections will help you grasp a visceral feeling of when you sit down and play a very good, large acoustic grand piano.


Cheers,


Joe

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

I'm with you Joe: I recently recorded (and played myself a few minutes) a real "D" in a very nice hall and, while being a big fan of Pianoteq, it simply doesn't compare. And I doubt it will before very, very long.

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

Luc Henrion wrote:

I'm with you Joe: I recently recorded (and played myself a few minutes) a real "D" in a very nice hall and, while being a big fan of Pianoteq, it simply doesn't compare. And I doubt it will before very, very long.

Hello Luc,

My post was only an answer to Beto-Music's question, which, if you recall, was a question directed to people who have played a many great acoustic grands and many high-quality digital baby grands:  He asked for a comparison of sound dispersion between the two sources.

In agreement with your own statement, I am also a tremendous fan of Pianoteq, especially for its expressiveness and musicality.  Sound dispersion characteristics aside, Pianoteq Version 4 (especially with good-quality headphones) allows me "make music" through my digital keyboard in a way that no other software-based piano has allowed me to do before now!

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

yes, it was (also!) about the sound dispersion that I was writing. Listening or playing a real grand in a good room is simply another experience that no digital grand can approach. Yet. Just my opinion of course, but I'm lucky enough to be in contact with many pianos and many pianists.

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

If you are a multimilionaire or bilionaire, and can afford to buy 33 pianos, variable high quality grands and historic pianos, harpsichords, electrics percursion instruments, and hire a 24hrs a day piano tuner to tune and needle every piano as you wish, and can also build a large mansion with 30 different acoustic environments...
I suggest you to put pianoteq by side.   

Last edited by Beto-Music (12-07-2012 22:27)

Re: Pianoteq 4 impressions!.

I'm not, I tell you! Yes, I have a real piano, an old Gunther 6" (from 1949, nearly historic in fact!), that I like a lot, and it only needs to be tuned once a year or even less. Last time my tuner came home to check my piano, we only took a cafe together then he left me without touching my piano because it was still in tune !
But as I'm also a sound engineer, as I wrote, I have to record many pianists (mostly classical) on many different pianos, that's the experience I'm talking about.
Recently also, I had to record some piano lines for a "variety" CD and here, I long hesitated between the "real thing" (my Gunther) or Pianoteq, and I ended up using both, the "real" for a more "rock" sound (my piano is very bright), PT for the more "ballad" oriented ones... and for a harpsichord line !