Topic: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

We went through this in prior versions.  I have multiple instances of Pianoteq in every project dating back 3-4 years - numbering in the hundreds.  If the new version 4 had simply kept all of the same .dll name and GUID registration info, these projects would continue to open seamlessly and I wouldn't have to keep prior versions installed.  Instead, this one is called Pianoteq 4.dll instead of the old Pianoteq.dll...

This completely messed with me in prior versions because 3.0 and 3.5 couldn't co-exist, so I had to fake it out by putting a renamed version pianoteq30.dll  in different location than pianoteq35.dll.  I don't remember all of the kludgy workarounds I had to do, but it looks like the clutter will continue to grow - endless legacy versions installed to keep projects from complaining on load, re-doing all of my templates.

This should be so simple - V4 contains all of the V3 capabilities and presets, so why can't it maintain backward capability using the same .dll name?

Last edited by chauncey (20-04-2012 20:51)

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

The majority of beta-testers have agreed that a new name for the DLL was the better option.


And why does it bother you, it's not like it's taking gigabytes on your hard drive...



My honest suggestion would be to download the Legacy PTQ file and replace all previous Pianoteq instances with Pianoteq 4 and load the old FXPs in. It should sound even better!

Last edited by EvilDragon (20-04-2012 20:53)
Hard work and guts!

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

I remembered my workaround.

I got sick of having a pianoteq30.dll, a pianoteq35.dll a pianoteq36.dll all butting heads and causing problems not opening old projects when the new one was loaded, I went with the latest install, and afterwards manually removed the version number from the name so I just had "pianoteq.dll" in my vst folder.

Today, after I installed v4, I renamed my old pianoteq.dll and pianoteq (64-bit).dll's to a backup extension, then renamed the pianoteq 4.dll and pianoteq 4 (64-bit) to the generic names pianoteq.dll and pianoteq (64-bit).dll

Problem solved - old projects load (v4 loads in place of v3) , and I don't have to update my templates and I can add V4 to new projects and only one version shows up in my list of available VST's.  I just have to remember to do this rename every time there is a patch.

p.s.  in reponse to the question:  The reason it bothered me was that next OS system load, 2 years from now I would have had to reinstall v3.0, V.35, V3.6 and v4 to maintain project compatibility.  Reloading all previous instances in projects would have taken days to essentially get me back to where I am, only to have to do it all over again when v. 4.5 comes out or v.5...

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

The issue is that there are sometimes changes to the older models, which could result in them sounding slightly different.  According to ED on the 'Impressions' thread, K1, M3 and C3 were actually updated with PT4 (I haven't tried them yet).  So say you have a really precise v3 sound in an old project, you don't want that to sound any different (even a little) if you re-render it, right?

... or maybe you don't mind, but I would .

Last edited by ReBased (20-04-2012 22:55)

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

I'm just coming off a horrid experience in the other direction that wasn't related to Pianoteq, but it is a cautionary tale for the growing string of VST versioning.

I had a project that was about 5 years old that I needed to simply load and tweak slightly to make it suitable for the client and re-render.

Long story short, it was an absolute nightmare - because of the move to 64 bit and the string of legacy VST's that had been superceded,  about a third of my VST's and FX wouldn't load (even though I had re-installed the 32 AND 64 bit versions where available of all VST's.  Consequently, I couldn't even tell what presets, tweaked or otherwise, had been used for the various tracks.  I had rendered the audio, but I ended up having to look for similar sounds I could only tell what  Battery had been used , but not which of the hundreds of kits or percussion matched up with the mapping of the track.  I looked helplessly through dozens of string patches in my sampler to find the one that worked with the precise articulations I had performed on strings. 

In a word, yes...I would have gladly taken a close updated match to all of my original sounds instead of this complete rebuild which ended up sounding nothing like the original.

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

This is a question that has been bothering me for long. I recall chauncey contacted us when 3.5 or 3.6 was released, about this issue. The thing is we messed up that compatibility thing between the various 3.x versions , we thought that all hosts considered the various pianoteq3x.dll to be the same plugin, and it was not the case for some hosts (sonar for example). Anyway, if we had not messed up, all pianoteq 3.x releases would have been seen as a same and unique plugin by all hosts. And all pianoteq 4.x releases will be seen as the same plugin by all all hosts (this time we are going to do it right !).

However we chose to make pianoteq 4.x not the same than pianoteq 3.x , for the reasons explained by ReBase (the engine has evolved a lot: while we make huge efforts to maintain a quasi-perfect backward compatibility, sometimes there may be subtle changes to the sound, and it allowed us to tweak the v3 instruments). Another reason was allow us to change the parameters (order, names, value range, add new parameters,..) exported by the plugin (otherwise any automation track would be messed up)

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

BTW, as we are talking about versions, you may need to know that:
1) we reduced the volume in version 4,
2) the default reverb might have changed for some instruments.

For example, the default Rhody is now equipped with the "Long Plate" reverb. If you want the reverb from version 3, it's simple: change it  to "Legacy reverb" and adjust the settings as in version 3.

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

chauncey wrote:

Long story short, it was an absolute nightmare - because of the move to 64 bit and the string of legacy VST's that had been superceded,  about a third of my VST's and FX wouldn't load (even though I had re-installed the 32 AND 64 bit versions where available of all VST's.  Consequently, I couldn't even tell what presets, tweaked or otherwise, had been used for the various tracks.  I had rendered the audio, but I ended up having to look for similar sounds I could only tell what  Battery had been used , but not which of the hundreds of kits or percussion matched up with the mapping of the track.  I looked helplessly through dozens of string patches in my sampler to find the one that worked with the precise articulations I had performed on strings.

Sounds like the move to 64bit is the biggest problem here.  What's your DAW?  With Reaper you can actually edit the project files (they're just text files) and rename plugin instances with search-and-replace to get them to load new versions correctly (assuming the new versions can load the old settings OK).

But yeah, if you absolutely need old projects to render and open perfectly, the only option is to never uninstall previous DAW versions and maybe some plugins.

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

The solution (on Windows 32-bit) I use is transfer old Pianoteq DLL's to their own unique subfolder in the ...\VSTPlugins directory. Most hosts seem to be smart enough to do a recursive  folder search themselves. For those that need prompting, a one-time entry of the subfolder name usually suffices. I have only been in trouble with hosts that do not display the full name of the DLL (for example, Overture displays three apparently indentical "Kontakt" plugins but which are different DLL's - in this case I have to remember that Overture lists the DLL's in alphabetical order).

For a complete solution to legacy Pianoteq usage, custom presets could be saved into that subfolder also, so that everything is in one known place. Or is there a hidden gotcha somewhere? (I have no experience with mixed use of 32-bit and 64bit VST's).

Last edited by hyper.real (21-04-2012 14:19)

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

OK, so this could be a very good solution for me and other, when having composed pieces with very specific sound.  ( Always the same happens, anyway. )

So if i try to rename the Pianoteq4.dll into Pianoteq4.2.dll
and rename Pianoteq4.5.dll,
and having them into their own VST Plugins folder,

if this works OK so that if independants and differents VST instruments,
then all will be OK, we could have all the new + all the past  :-)

( well, a fast way is to keep the name "Pianoteq4.dll" for the v4.2 so that Cubase loads songs made with the v4.2 without any question.
and a more sure way is to update songs by reloading a new instance, and recalling the "fxp" made for the song, so that in the future, Cubase will say exactly which plugin version was used with a song. v4.2 or v4.5.....
)


i try this tomorrow....

Ondist and Thereminist concertist and composer
Ondes Martenot, Ondéa, Thérémin, player, composer
Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphony in Cubase with 10 VSTi (including 4 instances of Pianoteq)

Re: LOVE the new sound, but why a renamed .dll?

Tested : FINE  !

When there is only ONE Pianoteq4.dll
(v4.2 or v4.5) then Cubase find it and load it without question.

if there are the 2 versions of plugins, named differently, then Cubase loads the v4.2 well with existing songs,
and then find well the second v4.5  :-)

( Hope this is well when saving a song with the 2 versions,
or with one or another one.... Anyway : always write clearly what VST is used and what trick there is with one song, into the internal notepad saved with the cubase song    )

Ondist and Thereminist concertist and composer
Ondes Martenot, Ondéa, Thérémin, player, composer
Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphony in Cubase with 10 VSTi (including 4 instances of Pianoteq)