Pianoteq 4 impressions!. (Page 1 of 5)

Very first impressions:

The first thing that really jumps out at me is that they changed the inharmonicity calculations. When using a scl file with a strong temperament it really jumps out at you now. It's very nice.

Another thing, the bass notes forte metallic sound now sounds like a nice crystal ring instead of a saw wave. I'm very impressed by such a huge improvement there.

My first impression is that the v4 trial does not like my current linux setup at all.  It's full of segfaults and floating point exceptions when trying to select ALSA or JACK audio during the setup.

I'll try to work on that later so for my 2nd impression I'm now in windows and loading up the windows trial version to try my luck here.

First impression after 5 minutes play with D4.

Fabulous! Another quantum leap. The reduced colouration in the bass registers that was apparent in the work-in-progress demos of a last year is evident in the mid and high registers too. Metallic hints are all but absent. The  sound of upper mid notes in D4 are particularly exquisite. Lots of other useability improvements too I notice, that I haven't checked out yet.

Pianoteq 4 is going to be fooling people they are listening to a real piano - not everyone, perhaps, but in certain situations. I wonder if concert pianists will take to using it on stage.

[Edited: when I wrote that, I hadn't seen the brand new pages about Version 4 on the main site. Existing users, check out the Listen pages in particular. I think the Modartt guys are confident version 4 is a monster <wink>.]

I really hate to be "that guy" but wow, I'm really not all that impressed with the sound. What's with the bass notes in D4 sounding like a bell? That's not what a grand piano sounds like (specifically the very bottom octave)...I've only played with the setting minimally so far so I can't be too critical of D4's potential, but as for the "out of the box" settings, I'm totally NOT blown away. There doesn't seem to be much new in terms of piano customization either...what happened to being able to control reverb room size, reverb length, and reverb wet/dry levels?

You can do that - check the Effects tab.

I firmly disagree with you about how the low range of D4 sounds. To me it is exquisite.

Wow. I don't know what the improvements in the sound are, but 3 and 4 are night and day. It reminds me of when I first used Pianoteq 3: I thought my digital piano sounded rather nice, until I plugged Pianoteq 3 in and I thought "now *this* sounds like a real one". I loved the sound of Pianoteq 3, and Pianoteq 4 proves how much the sound could be improved.

Now, this new sound takes a bit to get used to, as well. I can see why some of you say that the bass keys sound like bells (though I wouldn't call them bells myself).  Maybe some tweaking...

BTW, PLAY 4 coming out in May? He, he, nice move, Modartt. I have just upgraded to Standard as I had already decided. I'm glad I did, it's well deserved. For one, I'm glad to be able to move the mics around and have them match my speakers' position and having Player setting for everything for when I practise with headphones. The secrets behind the other settings will take a while to be learnt I think...

I like the new chaining of effects and the calibration. I'd been wishing for that.

I strongly disagree. Compare K1 and D4 for example. Isn't it on the contrary, that the major improvement is located there: from the low to low mids. This has been IMO the most problematic area in PTQ3, but D4 is really improvement...

@Keegan - please post details of your sound system: sound card, amplifier, transducers.

I have spent many hours auditioning and appraising sound reproduction equipment in a professional capacity. I know that inferior equipment is capable of interfering with the sound in many different ways to give the semblance of poor transient response. I would be happy to advise on this matter (as would others) to ensure your continued enjoyment of Pianoteq.

I'm using an RD-700NX as a controller, an M-Audio fast track pro USB audio interface and am running Pianoteq as a standalone application on my 2010 MacBook Pro. My monitors are M-Audio CX-5 placed on monitor stands, and for headphones I am currently using a pair of Bose QC15s (which I know are not good audiophile headphones, but definitely not a bad pair of headphones).

Fantastic!

Simple love it, exactly what I've been waiting for.

Bravo Bravo etc etc!!!

The initial linux trial version was broken, now fixed.  (I reported a bug and PT promptly fixed it).

@Keegan,

I am reading that the Bose QC15 are voiced for a warm sound, which in itself would tend to make transients sound duller. But more significantly, that it is not possible to switch the noise-cancelling facility off. This may be part of the issue, as the process is almost certainly an active one that involves digitization of the signal. Bose do not like talking about their technology, but if it is the case, they are likely interposing an A/D and then a D/A conversion.  I am also reading that the interface may not have sufficient resilience to drive high impedance headphones, which in the worst case I would expect manifests in sonic degradation where current starvation occurs (loud transients and/or bass frequencies which require the transducer to exercise). I note the speakers use a small bass/mid drive unit, which in itself would not yield a satisfactory bass response unless otherwise assisted. One assist is from the vented cabinet design, and being active speakers it is also possible there is some boosting of bass signals by electronics going on. Both of those are engneering 'cheats' - they pay Paul to buy better bass response down to a certain frequency, but they rob Peter of a decent response below that frequency. Both techniques tend to worsen the phase response in the low frequencies, which can result in a perceptibly worse transient response compared to an ordinary sealed-box loudspeaker design (techically: it is group delay causing dispersion).

While I am not personally familiar with your equipment, there is some reason to think it may be responsible for your view of the sound of PTQ 4. I would proceed by auditioning with different headphones, ones that are more easily driven by the interface (not noise-cancelling types), and comparing the sound to the speakers. Please note that as a cheap interface, it will likely be contributing some veiling of sonic details, which may be perceived as lack of expected timbral richness (sometimes accompanied by a cold, metallic quality).

Finally, let's not discount the fact that people do react differently to (what they hear as) distortions - sometimes violently. (In my case I was unable to listen to digital music for 20 years until jitter distortion was sorted out). It is possible you are particularly aware of some aspect of the sound synthesis that has altered between versions 3 and 4.

Do remember that, if using headphones to listen to presets made for line outputs, you will not be hearing the presets as they were designed to be heard. Good headphones will give better results, but not as good as good monitors with large cones.

Edit: And there is lot to build the sound with in the new version:

--the new convolution reverb engine, letting the user load ir's
--the tube amp
--the compressor

I agree.
It's like night and day IMHO.

I spent the whole day testing it, I still can't believe the new sound, I recently said I would be so happy with just three features, more thunderous bass, more attack, and a more beautiful sound, and to me, those are the better changes from v3 to v4, stil can't believe that bass I feel like I want to punch it all day long.

Love the calibration features, was sad to find I dont have velocity releases on my clavinova 501 but is an awesome tool and a silver bullet to end with the different calibration curves.

Back to play some more!.

It took a lot of time to creat the D4.  Maybe beause they had to rewrite the algoirityms...

How long will take to create another new model as good as D4 ?

Steve, I did not refer to perfection.  I was curious to know it D4 it's trying to recreate Steinway D as the pleyel add-on tried to recreat the real pleyel.

Pianoteq now it's a stronger competitor to V-piano.

Sooner that you think.

I upgraded from Play to Standard along with the version 4 upgrade (Thanks Modartt!). Playing it with my VAX77 with "extra heavy" action and CC#88 High Resolution MIDI Velocity protocol (15,000+ levels of velocity instead of 0-127). Very pleased with the overall improvement! I have never liked the feel of velocity-based sample switching, even versions 3.x sounded and played much better than sample-based instruments, now the tone is just wonderful....

I finally stopped playing at 3 am, the new sound is indeed more organic and powerful, the attack is awesome and I'm just talking about the D1, didnt even try yet the K1. I tested both with speakers and some Audio Technica AD 700, on both the sound was truly inspiring and amazing. I think nobody can't say that a modelled piano can't sound as good and realistic as the real thing.

As for the modelling, I don't think it was only a new piano model, not at all, I don't think either that you can create the D1 on Pianoteq 3, they even said you coudn't create a K1 using the C1 for example.

For me D1 is for Definitive, and I upgraded for free and even without that option I consider it very cheap, which shows how classy are the guys behind the company.

Well, after fooling with it for about 2 hours ....

Most of the presets are of no value to me.

However, it does have 2 or 3 presets (Jazz and Blues) that are very good and I definitely will be using Pianoteq4 regularly from here on.

I have not fooled with any of the modifications as of yet but that is a good thing.   I really do not wish to spend a lot of time modifying things.  I just want to play.

I am pleased that it is now actually a useful product for me.

Update:  Now, after trying many more of the presets ...  I have to say that there are many of them that are very good.   The only modifications I have had to make is that I always have to reduce the volume (they are all pretty loud, in my opinion).

So, now I would have to say that this product is very, very good and may be the only piano software I will be using.

Great Job.

Point taken!!!
I misread your post.
Apologies.

Nope, it's not your imagination