Topic by Gizmao

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Topic: Alicia's Keys, anyone?

Native Instruments: Alicia's Keys

I think this product has been around for a while but I recently listened to the demos a bit. I think it is a very good sampling job that not only includes much "imperfection" but also has a very direct, tangible sound, other than many other sampled pianos (for example, the Ivory demos, while balanced and all, never really reached me).

Can we do this kind of sound (which does have a very impressive pianissimo) in PTQ? I have been trying yesterday, trying all kinds of things, different PTQ models, tweaking, mic placement, massive amounts of EQ, dynamic processing, but so far not to much avail.

PTQ sound so brittle and nasal out of the box in comparison with this warm, wide and "larger than life" Alicia piano and too much EQ only makes it artificial, it seems.

I think there still is much to be gained with mic'ing, but one thing that is lacking is the directness, tangibility and immediacy of the sample (or many real piano recordings). PTQ tends to sound more distanced.

The high end is another issue. With my arsenal of tools, I can only get so much high end boost before it starts to sound intrusive and shrill. The "real" sampled piano in question, it seems, has an airiness to it while remaining very smooth and round. That helps a lot with getting the sound sit good in a mix -- which is always an issue with syntehtic / modeled emulations.

Granted, the team at NI / Scarbee used every tool that money can buy, including diverse mics and insanely expensive vintage gear. That may play a big role as well.

Any comments on this, any comparable results / patches?

PS. I do recognize the drawbacks and restrictions of a sample approach (which can also be heard in the demos of the NI product) and I am an avid PTQ user, so let's avoid that discussion!

Last edited by Gizmao (03-02-2012 18:27)

Reply by FJ

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Re: Alicia's Keys, anyone?

I personally own a copy of Alicia's Keys.

I think it is one of the best sampled libraries out there. It is also very playable in my opinion and I don't really have the feeling that I'm triggering samples which is very good.

Did you know that Alicia Keys recorded her album with this library and not her real piano? :-)

Reply by glittle

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Re: Alicia's Keys, anyone?

FJ, did the issues with hesitancy and delay get ironed out?  Early on a lot of users complained about note latency, "air" in the samples before notes started, and so on.  This is something I'm very sensitive to and leads to a completely disconnected feeling for me when playing, so I passed on that instrument.  Even after there were some announced adjustments, there were people complaining about the disconnected feel.

You calling it "playable" in particular makes me wonder if they have finally gotten all that taken care of.

http://balloonastronomy.com

Reply by Gizmao

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Re: Alicia's Keys, anyone?

Hi guys, thanks for chiming in. It seems that the product itself is pretty good. The core of my question, however, was if we can get anything comparable out of PTQ. Any comments on that?

Reply by glittle

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Re: Alicia's Keys, anyone?

Sorry about that, didn't mean to hijack.  I think this is another variant on the request that I'm hoping for too, a streak of something more organic or woody or lively in there.  I have no idea if that's really what I'm looking for, but missing that feel is the thing I most notice I wish was different when I play PT.  One way it shows up is in rich, nuanced, subtly complex pp or ppp notes.

http://balloonastronomy.com

Reply by FJ

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Re: Alicia's Keys, anyone?

glittle wrote:

FJ, did the issues with hesitancy and delay get ironed out?  Early on a lot of users complained about note latency, "air" in the samples before notes started, and so on.  This is something I'm very sensitive to and leads to a completely disconnected feeling for me when playing, so I passed on that instrument.  Even after there were some announced adjustments, there were people complaining about the disconnected feel.

You calling it "playable" in particular makes me wonder if they have finally gotten all that taken care of.

I consider myself a pretty criticle user but I have never noticed any delay or disconnected feeling with Alicia's Keys. I must say that when I bought it version 1.2, which is still the latest, was already out and that version solved a lot of troubles.

I think it is not possible to get such a sound out of Pianoteq yet. But in terms of playability Pianoteq is the best. Overall my current choice is Alicia's Keys.

Last edited by FJ (09-02-2012 11:14)