DIY Avantgrand-like with Pianoteq?

Hello Grimborg,

Your thread points out very thoughtful observations and poses some great questions, regarding how to enable Pianoteq to sound more "PianoLike" with speakers rather than headphones.

Firstly, I am gladdened to read that you enjoy the sound of Pianoteq Play when heard through headphones.  That's a great start; incidentally, I usually play Pianoteq through headphones as well.  In fact, since early 2009, every demo I have prepared for the Pianoteq website has been recorded, evaluated and/or post processed while wearing AKG-702 semi-open headphones.

Now, if you love the way Pianoteq sounds through a decent set of headphones, yet sounds disappointing when you use speakers to play for friends, then I would strongly suspect the quality level of your speakers -- even more so than the actual placement of the speakers -- is at the heart of your particular sonic dilemma.  Good headphones allow one to perceive much higher dynamic range without audio distortion, than what is possible via many smaller commercial speakers.  In addition, headphones tend to "envelope" the listener to a greater extent than listening to point sources of sound (i.e., smallish speakers.)

Let's pause here, for a moment, to ponder the following possibility:  Would it be possible to acquire an extra pair or two of headphones that your friends might also listen along, as you perform on Pianoteq?  I cannot answer this question for you, as it is a personal decision you might consider for yourself.

A somewhat related question is this:  Have you made a CD or higher resolution (320kbps) mp3 recording of your playing through Pianoteq, and heard your own performances played through a number of different setups ... such as car stereo, your own home stereo and your friends' systems?  If your playing does sound much better through these forms of media, then I would definitely suspect that your monitor speakers need upgrading.

* * * * *

Now, let's turn our attention towards the Avantgrand electronic piano by Yamaha.  I attended the Avantgrand's original debut in year 2009 at the Winter NAMM convention in Anaheim, California.  It was there I first (and last) played an Avantgrand.  I learned from the Yamaha representative that Yamaha placed speakers in the same locations they placed their microphones for sampling their CFIII 9' grand piano.

Yamaha's idea was to place the speakers (upwardly firing) in front of the player, and in the same position, in order to simulate their 9' flagship grand piano.  I agree it was a great idea on Yamaha's part, but the Avantgrand's frame is not 9' long!  Although it is a nice marketing ploy, I was NOT blown away;  the thought never entered my mind that I was playing a real acoustic piano.  My absolutely first impression was this:  Yes, it sounds (only) nice, but at a price greater than $20kUSD, I would be happier with a real grand piano!!  (Besides, a real Yamaha CFIII was about 15 yards away, and I played that also!)

So, if you wish to deploy speakers in the manner of the Avantgrand, I might suggest that you (via Pianoteq standard) duplicate the positioning of upward firing speakers in the same geometric locations that you choose to position the virtual microphones.

* * * * *

In the end, I might suggest that you acquire the best monitors that you can afford.  After all, if you love Pianoteq via headphones, the better speakers do a better overall job of moving the air for you and your friends.

Hope this sheds some light on this subject.  As always, other members are encouraged to elaborate, agree and/or disagree with what I have written.

Happy Pianoteqqing!

Cheers,

Joe

A subwoofer will make a world of difference to the left end of the keyboard.
Clive.

Interesting thread. I've been struggling with the issue of provide a sound image that is similar to a real piano. I've experimented with quite a bit of things and still am not there. The problem with monitors (I have pretty good RoKit KRK monitors) is that the sound is too much directed. I have them in the right triangle shape, unfortunately slightly lower than my ears. It really doesn't sound "piano like". The sound needs to be somehow more diffuse. My last experiment was with 5 speakers, 2 small speakers on top of a piano cabinet like the yamaha CLP 3xx series, 2 under the keyboard in the housing point up in 45 degrees, where I use 2 active floor monitors (dB technology 10") and a SW in between those 2. Also that is disappointing mainly because it is very difficult to find a good balance between all the speakers.
What could be a good experiment is to have 2 omni directional speakers on the 2 sides on top of the piano cabinet and a sub under it so I get the low frequency vibrations in my fingers. Unfortunately such speakers cost a lot (and I've already spent a fortune on the other speakers). Therefore I'm wondering if anyone has tried the MM1 speakers from B&W?

Good points. That is what I partially do with the speakers under my keybed and the small speakers pointing upwards. The problem you have with this, is that it colours the sound. I probably could spend some time playing with the equalizer until I have the sound I like. I still believe that omni directional is the best compromise. They send the sound in all directions, with a rather flat frequency response. I've seen such speakers in a home cinema set as well. Those sets try to create a soundstage that is much wider than the tv. A real piano does that as well.