Topic: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

Because i think that Pianoteq should or could one day offer the possibility, after piano, vibra, marimba, celesta, tubular bells, ... to play with a really realistic chromatic harp,

my whish would be to play harp on a MIDI keyboard, and be able to change the harp tonalities, as like as with the real thing : the chromatic harp 7 pedals.

And, well.... this begin to be possible... BUT currently, with the Kontakt sampler, with a script, let's see this video i made (very quickly, by handling myself the camera)

http://www.cslevine.com/pc/video_MIDIharpe.htm
   ( Sorry, my explanations are in french )

i think that this could be some real help for composing for the harp and it's particular modulation capabilities, and i would really like to have this possibility, in the future, with pianoteq. So this is a idea submission to Philippe Guillaume and the team.

Ondist and Thereminist concertist and composer
Ondes Martenot, Ondéa, Thérémin, player, composer
Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphony in Cubase with 10 VSTi (including 4 instances of Pianoteq)

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

Très intéressant! Curieusement, j'allais éventuellement faire la même suggestion pour le prochain instrument non-piano puisque la harpe en est si proche...Évidemment, n'étant pas harpiste, je n'aurais pas pensé à ce système pour les pédales, mais bravo, c'est très fonctionnel!

Peut-être même Philippe aurait-il une autre idée pour traiter les pédales dans la nouvelle version à venir, peut-être en utilisant les pédales du piano.

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Very interesting! Curiously, I was also going to make the same suggestion for the next non-piano instrument since the sound is so close to the piano...Not being a harpist, I would not have thought of this system for the pedals, but it's very functionnal indeed!

Maybe Philippe would even have a different idea for those pedals in the upcoming next version, maybe using the piano pedals.

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

It wouldn't sound perfect the way it would in Pianoteq, but you can do something like that now. I use Logic and would build it in the  'environment' but I assume that most DAWs have some sort of MIDI manipulation available.

You'd need to build a little program that shifted MIDI pitches depending on pedal position. I don't know how harp pedals work and interact with each other so I'll us x and y. Basically

if ped1
add X to pitches tuv
add Y to pitches mno
if ped2 etc.

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

doug wrote:

It wouldn't sound perfect the way it would in Pianoteq, but you can do something like that now. I use Logic and would build it in the  'environment' but I assume that most DAWs have some sort of MIDI manipulation available.

You'd need to build a little program that shifted MIDI pitches depending on pedal position. I don't know how harp pedals work and interact with each other so I'll us x and y. Basically

if ped1
add X to pitches tuv
add Y to pitches mno
if ped2 etc.



The way a chromatic harp works is as follows:
A chromatic harp's strings are nominally tuned to a diatonic (Ionian) scale, i.e, do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti and then back to do sounding an octave higher than the initial do.  That is to say, the harp's strings essentially reflect the seven "white notes" on a piano's keyboard.  Notice there are seven unique strings, and seven pedals, corresponding to the octave pitches of each white note letter.  No matter how the pedals are set, the pedal harp still has only seven unique strings per octave.

As an aside, two of the harp strings are color-coded to help the harpist find his or her way around the strings.  All of the "C" pitches have red strings;  all of the "F" pitches have dark blue strings.  The remaining strings are either colored "clear" or sometimes appear as "white" -- either way, they are without the red color for C's and without the blue color for F's.


The pedal harp (usually referred to as a concert harp) uses the mechanical action of seven pedals to change the pitches of the seven uniquely named diatonic strings. Each pedal is attached to a rod or cable within the column of the harp, which then links to a series of moving rods within the neck. When a pedal is moved with the foot, the column rod is moved, which then moves the linkages and turns either or both of two small discs at the top of strings. The discs are studded with two pins that press against the string as they turn, shortening and/or lengthening the vibrating length of the string.

Each of the seven pedals has three positions. In the top position, no pins are in contact with the string and all notes are flat by a semitone; thus the harp's native tuning is to the scale of C-flat major. In the middle pedal position the top disc presses its pins against the string, resulting in a natural, giving the scale of C major if all pedals are set in the middle position. In the bottom position the second, lower disc is turned, shortening the string again to create a semitone sharp, giving the scale of C-sharp major if all pedals are set in the bottom position.

In each position the pedal can be secured in a notch so that the foot does not have to keep holding it in the correct position, unlike piano pedals that spring upward when released by the foot.

The order of the pedals is directly influenced by the order of sharps and flats in the key signature. Often the harpist needs to temporarily change a given pedal, to compensate for an accidental sharp or flat in the musical score.  Many other scales, both diatonic and synthetic, can be obtained by adjusting the pedals differently from each other; also, many chords in traditional harmony can be obtained by adjusting pedals so that some notes are enharmonic equivalents of others, and this is central to pedal harp technique.


* * * *

Although I am not a harpist, I can understand the desire for a diatonic harp that has seven adjustable pedals.  At the same time, we keyboardists may not require the need/utility of a diatonic harp plus pedals, because the normal piano-type keyboard allows one to play harp literature, and an accomplished harpist can essentially play the existing piano literature.

The point of my submittal to this thread is informational -- that is to say, to point out how a concert harp works; it is not my intent to take sides whether to simulate the seven pedals, or to abandon the seven pedals and use the regular piano-type keyboard.

Cheers,


Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (28-12-2011 06:43)

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

I find Cslevine's suggestion for dispatching the 7 pedals on the seven groups of three black keys very clever. Regarding the question whether it is preferable to have a full chromatic implementation or diatonic with the 7 pedals, I think that a big advantage of Cslevine's suggestion is the possibility to make glissandi in any tone by using only the white keys, which I guess is important relatively to the existing harp repertoire. A full chromatic implementation would naturally have its own advantages.

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

Interesting reading, as i love the sound of the harp.
It is such a moody sound like the piano but just another kind of mood

I can't help asking Moddart if you allready has been experimenting with a harp model ...

Last edited by olepro (30-12-2011 09:09)

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

Well, if you ask, we haven't yet done much experiments with a harp model, but I believe it will be very interesting. So far, it's on our long todo list...

Re: whish for a script related to harp pedals ...

OK, thanks Phillipe