New Piano for pianoteq

Obviously Chris (Sigasa) has far more experience with that particular keyboard and the PNO Scan system than anyone I've ever heard of, so I can't comment further.

However, if you're using Pianoteq for the sound, and aren't interested in doing what Chris did (change the sensing system) then what you might consider is a good USED name brand keyboard such as Roland, Yamaha, etc. since you're not concerned about the (putrid) sound that most DPs produce.

I spent too much on a relatively high end Roland console model that has what I consider to be a pretty decent action - it generates the full range of damper pedal controls (not just ON and OFF).  A great many keyboards do not generate the subtle damper effects achievable with this feature.

Of course, Chris now has the full range (actually more) of midi pedal damper effects, so he has the ultimate system.

Glenn

Chris,
It appears that the PNO Scan system emulates double escapement - yes? I have been wondering about that. That's great.

I suspect that Lanny means to play repeated notes, with the key return limited to 3/16" from the top. The note should repeat, without being damped inbetween repeats. Yes?

Some digital pianos emulate double escapement as well. Most Yamaha Clavinovas do, some newer Rolands do, and the entire new Casio Privia range also do. (My Casio PX-330 does, for example) However,  I assume the PNO Scan system would be better.  I would have to depress the key further than 3/16" for the virtual damper to be lifted on my Casio - it is not that precise.  However, it does allow repetitions for small key returns (less than 50%).  This is of course what the "tri-sensor" feature of the Casio action is all about - it has an additional sensor, between the top (note off) and bottom (note on) sensor - the additional sensor allows the shallower return repeats, and also allows these repeats to occur without damping.

I believe the most important aspect of double escapement is that it allows notes to repeat for relatively small key returns from the bottom.  This allows rapid and soft trills. My piano book gives an example of a xylophonist starting a trill softly, and slowly increasing the strength of the trill. The mallets will start off very close to the instrument, and as strength is increased, the distance the mallets return also increases. If you watch the hammers as a concert pianist does the same thing on a grand piano, they will behave similarly.

EDIT: I've dug out some measurements I took from my Casio PX-330:
Total Key Travel: 11mm
Note-Off point: 6mm/55% release  (that's over 7/16" from the top)
Partial-repeat release: 4mm/36% release
So, the double-escapement "partial repetition" band is only 2mm. Does that match a fine acoustic grand? I have to wonder. 

Pianoteq seems to behave correctly in regards to double escapement repeats.

Greg.

It took me just over a month to do mine. But I had no instructions and I had no example to follow. It would have taken me easily less than a week had I known back then what I know now. There was a lot of trial and error, but that needn't be the case for anyone who follows in my footsteps. In actual fact, the process, although being involved, is fairly straight forward. I would be able to offer advice, guidence and instruction, but you would need to think seriously as to whether you have the time to spare and be sure it is what you want to do. My advice - read all threads pertaining to this project and do thorough research. Should you eventually decide to go ahead, I can provide info on where to get the PNOscan strip and TP40WOOD.

I will provisionally look into different housing options anyway because I'm also interested to know what 'off the shelf' housings are out there.

Personally I have just ordered the Fatat/Studiologic Triple Piano Pedal VFP-3/15 . I will take out the electronics, and put my three PNOscan sensors in. I'll let you know how this goes. You won't need the CME as the sensors are fully customisable via the PNOscan software (which is available upon request from QRS.

I'll be happy to answer any further questions you may have,

Regards,

Chris

I think my ideal controller might be a Kawai MP10 with a PNOScan, especially now that I know that PNOScan does double escapement - this would make up for the lack of a tri-sensor action on the Kawais.  I have learnt that the MP10 has offset pins for the black keys, so that the pivoting length of the black keys is the same as the white keys.  This appeals to me.  Mind you, buying a top of the line instrument like the MP10 and then dinking with it would be a pretty tall order for most of us I'd imagine!

Does TP40WOOD action (or others in the series) have the offset pins? (sorry if I am not using the right terminology)

Greg.

Thanks guys for the suggestions but both are bit over budget - I would spend the extra if it made a big difference. Do they have a better action/feel/touch than the Numa Nero? They also seem to have a lot of 'bell-and-whistles' that I really don't think I'd need.

What do you guys think?

My advice, in your price range, go for the Nero, then at least you've got a very fine action with the added option of adding a PNOscan if you every wanted to in the future???

I think I might just get the Numa Nero. The PNOscan could always be something for the future.

Thank you guys for your suggestions.

One final questions, I'm a little confused about which pedal to buy:

FATAR VFP-3-10 or FATAR VFP-3-15 they seem the same except one is open and the other closed. And am I right in thinking it works with the sustain being graded and the una corda and sostenuto being on/off and is this ok?

Thanks again.

Murray.

Wow, they make something to  accommodate a pianist in terms of action, getting rid of all functions except for those suited to a piano playing but don't think they'll want pedals?

Sorry to rant, just seems like a large over-sight.

I have a dp-10 at the moment and it's always moving around, do any of the other Roland pedals work I only use two if I'm honest.

Any chance that either of these might work?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fatar_vfp215m.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/roland_rpu3.htm

The Roland with maybe only 2 plugged in?

Thanks.

Murray.

Here you go Murray

http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manu...je02_W.pdf

Give the .pdf a few seconds to fully load

Hope this helps

Regards,

Chris

Just an update.

I finally got my Numa Nero.

Well, what can I say - It's incredible. The body isn't glossy like all the ones I've seen in other review so I assume it's a new model. None of the flaws read on here or anywhere else are present. No weird random velocity or unexpected midi signals.

I really couldn't be happier with it. It makes my old Roland feel like a toy and has made pianoteq even more enjoyable to play now that I can achieve more subtle dynamics.

I'm still getting to grips with the sort of curve I need. Reading the curve page on this site some people suggested leaving it linear and using the 'you play' feature so I'll look into that to try and get even more out of his amazing board.

Thanks again to all you guys for your help and for anyone considering a new midi controller, I can't recommend this one enough.

Murray.