Topic by Rytmenpinne

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Topic: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

I've found that the the PT presets have insane amounts of energy in the 300-500hz region I figured this is why I find it slightly "muddy", unclear and having bad separation etc.. so I did some serious compensating and I'm quite happy with the results.. This is for the C3 close mic preset.

Equalizer = [80, 153, 245, 352, 523, 1078, 1853; -0.3, -3.6, -8.5, -10.2, -6.3, -1.4, -0.3]

It's also my speakers that are quite pronounced in the frequency range so you might wanna fiddle with the settings a little bit..

Try it and see(listen) what you think feel free to post your own EQ curves that you like

http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ my very own one man band project

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

At one time, there was a feature request for the ability to save EQ settings and click on them from a drop-down list. Still seems like a good idea.

I like the effect that you are getting from these settings, although I don't hear them, on my system, as very pronounced. Could you post a "before and after" set of mps files? Some pieces\songs may bring out the difference more.

Reply by Rytmenpinne

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Jake Johnson wrote:

At one time, there was a feature request for the ability to save EQ settings and click on them from a drop-down list. Still seems like a good idea.

I like the effect that you are getting from these settings, although I don't hear them, on my system, as very pronounced. Could you post a "before and after" set of mps files? Some pieces\songs may bring out the difference more.


That would be killer feature! same thing for all curves would be really nice! There allready seem to be a preset list, it really should be editable too!

as far as a sample song I guess I could try to cook something up, but if you don't notice a big difference when you play I don't really don't think you will with a sample either as I said too, my speakers are quite prononced in this range. Plus the dimensions of my room gives some rather nasty resonances at frequencies between 140 and 400hz. PTq actually becomes quite unpleasant to listen to at louder volumes :S

I find the exact same eq works quite well on the close miced M3 too, it really makes it much more clearer...

Last edited by Rytmenpinne (24-05-2011 20:00)
http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ my very own one man band project

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Great equalizer curve! I'm listening to it right now. How did you go about creating it?

Regards

Chris

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Ah, I hear the difference now. Playing a few midi files, I didn't hear much change, but when I sat down and played, I immediately heard the difference in the upper bass and tenor sections. Nice.

My impression is that the default setting captures a lot of the growl and rumble of a close-mic'ed grand, which can create muddiness, and your settings cut that growl and rumble for a greater presence of each note. Sounds good.

Let's hope the request for the ability to save these EQ settings makes it on the list of changes.

I hate to admit it, but I sometimes wish that there was also a post-sound generation parametric EQ system in the standalone version. With sliders that could be assigned freqs but with the ability to sweep a cut or rise across the spectrum and listen while we play a midi file. I know that most of the recordings we hear of pianos are put through EQ. It would be good to try to emulate the sound without having to load the vst version into a sequencer and then load an EQ vst, etc.

In any case, thanks for these EQ settings.

Reply by olepro

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

I requested this a looong time ago, but the answer as i remember was to freeze the equalizer parameters to use it on all presets.
I think all FX in Pianoteq should have a preset save-load so we dont have to save a whole new Piano preset just to have another EQ or reverb setting.
A piano is a piano, EQ is EQ, a room is a room......... :-)

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Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Indeed - I believe Pianoteq 4 might change all this, allowing you to have separate presets for EQ, Velocity, Release velocity, Pedal, and Microphone positioning. That would be EXTREMELY useful.

Hard work and guts!

Reply by etto

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

and a bypass switch, maybe??

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC4289A53FE3A4807

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Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

The YC5 sounds interesting with these EQ settings, too.

Edit: I meant to say: The YC5 Close mic preset sounds interesting with these EQ settings, too.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (26-05-2011 14:34)

Reply by Rytmenpinne

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

sigasa wrote:

Great equalizer curve! I'm listening to it right now. How did you go about creating it?

Regards

Chris


it really wasn't that hard

I've also noticed something else with the eq, it seems to have somekind of volume compansating feature in it.. I gues this is both good and bad.. mostly good I now realize

http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ my very own one man band project

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

etto wrote:

and a bypass switch, maybe??

I like this idea of a bypass switch. In fact there might be a bypass switch for all of the parameters. Turning it on would set the parameter to the default value?

Good for comparing the effect of an edit to the sound before the edit. Now we, can compare edits by using the A\B buttons, but that alternates between the last two changes or instruments. Just a tiny led to the right of each slider, with the led being both the button and the indicator?

Reply by DonSmith

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Jake Johnson wrote:

At one time, there was a feature request for the ability to save EQ settings and click on them from a drop-down list. Still seems like a good idea.

Also the same for the Spectrum Profile.

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Here is an attempt at clearing/brightening the octave and a half - two octaves upwards and inclusive of middle C of the 'C3 Solo Recording' preset

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.php?id=1237

Last edited by sigasa (06-06-2011 03:27)

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

I have posted an .fxp entitled Equalization and Volume Balance and a demo mp3 of the same name. I will post EQ and volume visuals shortly.

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4097/e...lumeba.jpg
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4097...lumeba.jpg

These alterations are an attempt to bring more 'zing' into the zone from C3 to G4.

I've not tried yet, but am pretty confident that the frozen EQ and VOL parameters could be used with other models.

regards,

Chris

and for those who just wish to copy and paste:

Equalizer = [245, 254, 751; +0.3, -8.5, +0.3]

Volume = [-2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -1, 0, 0, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2]

Last edited by sigasa (12-06-2011 17:18)

Reply by Graham

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Rytmenpinne I made some attempts to de-muddify PTQ over a year ago, couldnt get it perfect, need PTQ v4 but maybe they will help you tweak your setup

go to FXP corner and search results by authors name.   'Graham'

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Thank you. I will check them out,

Regards,

Chris

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

I certainly think you're onto something with the EQ tweaking. In fact it was reading this very thread that inspired me to look at tweaking EQ also. I'd thought for a long time that things were more than a little muddy, certainly around the mid range of the keyboard.

Now, regarding my 'Best C3...', I listened again to the 'so called' volume balancing through my headphones. Funny how your ears can ply tricks on you isn't it!!! It sounded very UNbalanced to fresh ears. Much better when I reset to a straight line!!! I then reset all hammer hardness settings and that sounded better to my ears. I then DISabled the volume compensation and that sounded better!!!

The only things I haven't reset are the EQ and resonance (although I may do that too when I listen again tomorrow!!!)

So I eat plenty of humble pie and thinks to myself, maybe I will start all over again tomorrow???

Warm regards to all,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (28-06-2011 00:39)

Reply by doug

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

Fresh ears: maybe use "random" to microscopically change things each time you restart. Sort of like air pressure and humidity do to a real piano.

Reply by Rytmenpinne

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

This thread generated more replies than I expected

Obviously there's no perfect eq the general idea here is just to remove some excess energy in 400hz area. This is also more or less a 'rule' that if somethings sounds unclear you can try to cut a couple of dB's from 120-600hz.. People also tend to like excess bass and treble sadly, almost all non hifi/audiophile people have somekind of master 'hammock' EQ or some presets that says 'Rock' or similar..

I only have pt Play so I guess I can't enjoy all the changes, but after just looking at the EQ I imagine it should be quite dull souding I'll have to test it tomorrow tho..

Another interesting bit about PT's eq is that it's volume compansating(I mentioned it earlier too) I first didn't like it cause it confused me somewhat but now I realise it's really great since you wont be volume biased. Specially untrained ears will easier hear what the eq actually do and not what's louder

http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ my very own one man band project

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Demuddifying Eq setting(for PLAY C3 users)

I'm not sure if this is on topic, but I've learned in only the past year that a high pass filter is sometimes used on hardware digital pianos.  I don't know if there is a usual cut-off freq, however.

The usual low pass filter is of course well-known, since it can be modulated by velocity in an attempt to reproduce the way that hard strikes increase the amplitude of upper partials and transients. But I haven't experimented with high pass filters in the upper bass and tenor enough to know their exact effect, and they are rarely discussed. My impression is that the high pass filter allows control of freqs that could be heard as mud.