Topic by mtruelove

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Topic: From laptop to amp using a DAC

Hi,

I own a Roland rd 300sx, laptop, DACmagic and a marantz preamp.

What I'm thinking is;

roland (via midi usb)> laptop (with pianoteq) > external usb sound card  > (via optical cable) DACmagic > Marantz > speakers.

Is this the right sort of setup to get the best sound out of pianoteq?

Emailing the support it seems there isn't much difference between 16-bit or 24-bit except for production which I'm not concerned about.

In other words is there any reason to buy this sound card:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Labs-S...mp;sr=8-20

over this so long as they are both asio:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIXES-External...dpp_img_in

If my dacmagic is doing all the converting being digital all the way from the piano through the laptop then through the sound card till the DAC  does it mean I can use any old usb sound card so long as I use optical cables and supports asio?

If anyone has a better suggestion for a usb sound card it would be much appriciated.

I hope I've made sense.
Thanks.

Murray.

Reply by Tinknocker

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

mtruelove wrote:

Hi,

I own a Roland rd 300sx, laptop, DACmagic and a marantz preamp.

What I'm thinking is;

roland (via midi usb)> laptop (with pianoteq) > external usb sound card  > (via optical cable) DACmagic > Marantz > speakers.

Is this the right sort of setup to get the best sound out of pianoteq?

Emailing the support it seems there isn't much difference between 16-bit or 24-bit except for production which I'm not concerned about.

In other words is there any reason to buy this sound card:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Labs-S...mp;sr=8-20

over this so long as they are both asio:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIXES-External...dpp_img_in

If my dacmagic is doing all the converting being digital all the way from the piano through the laptop then through the sound card till the DAC  does it mean I can use any old usb sound card so long as I use optical cables and supports asio?

If anyone has a better suggestion for a usb sound card it would be much appriciated.

I hope I've made sense.
Thanks.

Murray.

Looks to me like all the sound card would be doing in your proposed setup is converting the electronic digital output to optical. Can you connect the DACMagic via usb directly and use it as a sound card?

Reply by mtruelove

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

Thanks for the reply.

I'll try as you've said using the DAC via usb.

The only problem using usb that I'm aware of is that it can't handle 24-bit but I don't think this will be a problem.

I'm concerned about latency but I'll report back with my findings.

If it doesn't work I suppose using something like an m-audio via RCA and bypass the dac and go straight intot he amp would be best?

Thanks again.

Murray.

Reply by olepro

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

But does this DAC has an ASIO driver ?
Otherwisw i'm afraid it has too much latency if you want to play piano using it as a soundcard...

olepro's Website

Reply by mtruelove

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

After much experimentation I decided to get the m-audio fast track pro.

Even though the DACmagic supported asio I just couldn't get rid of the latency without crackles and pops at just about every sample setting.

M-audio works perfectly and will be buying pianteq soon.

Reply by slestrange

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

A 'newbie' here with a similar question about sound-cards ...

I am using a Yamaha CP33 connected via USB to a MacBook (2.2Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo; 2 GB Ram; OS X 10.6.7) and have been trying to run the Pianoteq sound out of the Macbook and into an analogue mixer (Yamaha MW10C).

The output signal via the MacBook sound-card is weak and noisy.  To generate a strong signal within the mixer, I have to apply almost maximum gain and end up with excruciating noise levels that render the output unlistenable to.

One option I have considered to overcome this is to take the Pianoteq sound out of the Macbook via the optical connection in the sound-card, using a Toslink cable and connector.  This should overcome the noise problem.  However, I would then need to invest in a DAC to take that signal into the mixer.

Can anyone recommend such a unit and/or confirm that this would actually solve the problem of getting a sufficiently clean and strong signal into the mixer?  Would it improve (or disimprove) potential latency issues?  (At the moment there are none.)

Or, should I really be thinking of ditching the analogue mixer and going for an external sound-card that could take analogue inputs?

Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions would be welcome, as I'm still new to this game.

Many thanks in advance,

SL

Reply by mtruelove

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

I wouldn't bother with a DAC. All it seemed to do in my setup was add latency and it didn't ever sound good. If you need to buy a DAC you might as well get a good external sound card instead.

Reading on the forum it seemed not many people were using DACs either.

I went with the m-audio fast track pro because it was used in one of the videos on the website. I'm going from the m-audio with RCA cables into my marantz. Sounds amazing.

I think it's only the pro version that supports 24bit but I don't think there's an audible difference between 24 and 16. But if you're doing a lot of post this might be essential.

Using an external sound card should also free you of any internal interference from the laptop.

Hope this helps.

Bottom line I couldn't find a good reason to use a dedicated DAC.

Murray.

Reply by olepro

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

slestrange wrote:

The output signal via the MacBook sound-card is weak and noisy.  To generate a strong signal within the mixer, I have to apply almost maximum gain and end up with excruciating noise levels that render the output unlistenable to.
SL

You should be able to have a nice strong signal even from a "cheap" soundcard.
I dont know anything about Mac but if there's a mixer like in Windows you should try to look there and see if you can increase the volume somehow.
It really sounds like something is wrong and can be corrected without buying a new soundcard.

olepro's Website

Reply by slestrange

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

mtruelove wrote:

I went with the m-audio fast track pro because it was used in one of the videos on the website. I'm going from the m-audio with RCA cables into my marantz. Sounds amazing.

Hope this helps.

Bottom line I couldn't find a good reason to use a dedicated DAC.

Murray.

Thanks Murray. 

I had a look at that M-Audio product, but noticed that it is has only two (mono) analogue inputs.  This would be a problem for me as my primary sound is still the onboard samples of the CP33 which go into the mixer on a stereo channel.

I suppose I could still get the Fast Track Pro for Pianoteq and take its output into the mixer.  I'll have to think about that one.

SL

Reply by slestrange

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

olepro wrote:

You should be able to have a nice strong signal even from a "cheap" soundcard.
I dont know anything about Mac but if there's a mixer like in Windows you should try to look there and see if you can increase the volume somehow.
It really sounds like something is wrong and can be corrected without buying a new soundcard.

The Mac audio output is notoriously puny and with little room for adjustment.  And whether I took it into the mixer via stereo 1/4" jacks or RCA plugs, the result was the same: weak and noisy.  However, because the audio can also be sent in digital format over an optical link, this seemed like one way round the problem.  I guess I'll just have to read up a bit more about DAC's vs soundcards ...

Reply by slestrange

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Re: From laptop to amp using a DAC

Just to say thanks to Murray and Olepro for getting me thinking and pointing me in the right direction.  In the end I returned the analogue mixer and got a soundcard.  No more problems with output level from Pianoteq and I can still keep the CP33 plugged in to use its own internal sounds.

Now all I need is to experiment a bit more with my trial version of Pianoteq.  I grant that it is a wonderful project worthy of support, yet I am still not fully convinced by the piano sounds I have (as yet) been able to generate from it.  Still, will keep on trying, tweaking and fiddling ...

SL