Topic: Soft/una corda pedal question
Is there any point in using a potentiometer equipped pedal as the soft/una corda pedal trigger in PianoTeq? i.e. is there a discernable difference between using potentiometer or momentary switch when used thus?
Is there any point in using a potentiometer equipped pedal as the soft/una corda pedal trigger in PianoTeq? i.e. is there a discernable difference between using potentiometer or momentary switch when used thus?
I'm sure there was a previous discussion where it was mentioned that as the hammer shifts slightly it can still hit 3 strings but with less compacted felt, so there can be a change in tone. I can't recall whether it was stated that this effect is modelled in Pianoteq.
Yep, it is modelled in Pianoteq, I'm pretty sure.
Actually, thinking about it, I have a Yamaha FC3 hooked up already to my CP33 soft/una corda input! I'll check and post findings.
Apologies,
Chris
I found it very hard to tell if there WAS a graduation in timbre and volume!
Don't forget that you have a slider in the voicing panel for controlling the soft pedal (standard and pro versions). It is set a bit low by default.
I'm using a set of Roland RPU3 pedals and all 3 pedals are continuous (potentiometers). Pressing the soft pedal does display a continuous range from 0 to 127 in the MIDI window. The graphic soft pedal position in the main PTQ window also moves through four distinct levels (as does the sustain pedal) but it is very difficult to discern if the actual effect is varying continuously (from tri-corda through duo-corda to una-corda). The effect of the sustain pedal can also be viewed by toggling the velocity button until the velocity curve displays "Pedal" and this shows up as a fading band moving smoothly back and forwards across the graph as the sustain pedal is pressed and released slowly. Unfortunately there is no such display for the soft pedal.
I would also like to know if the unacorda effect is continuous or simply switched in PTQ. Some editions of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata are annotated for all three levels of soft pedal, would be great to accurately reproduce that.
OOPS!,
Yes, Silly Me (I should have read the previous post).
Increasing the soft pedal slider in the voicing section to about 0.5 definitely shows that the soft pedal function IS continuous.
Just thinking... what's the point of making una corda adjustable? You can't do that on a real piano, so I'm wondering, is there a universal value for this parameter that reflects reality? If not, please consider making it like other sliders in Pianoteq where 1 = normal. I definitely do NOT want una corda unrealistically exaggerated, but I also don't want it unrealistically weak.
The unacorda pedal on a real grand is progressive because each string will be struck with progressively softer hammer felt as the pedal pressure is increased, if you look at the hammer felt face you will nearly always see three distinct grooves where the felt has hardened due to repeated contact with the strings. This effect will be less pronounced with a newer piano as the hammer felt will be more or less uniform hardness initially. I think that having the adjustment is good because the full range between new and worn out hammers will lie somewhere between unrealistically exaggerated and unrealistically weak. The key to making adjustments to PTQ parameters is is to do it in tiny steps so you don't end up in an unrealistic situation.
^Yes, una corda is continuous (though it's debatable just how continuous it really is), and that dynamic holds no matter what value of una corda intensity you select. Also, hammer hardness is a separate adjustable parameter. The una corda adjustment should have 1 = normal across all hammer hardness values.
Mathematically, this should be pretty easy to figure out and implement. You're simply hitting 2 strings instead of 3, or 1 instead of 2. Unless the developers are taking some sort of short cut (like an EQ and volume adjustment). But I doubt that's the case. There should be a "neutral" or "normal" setting, so at least we know what's most realistic.
It's a common thought that the una corda pedal consists in hitting one or two strings instead of three. This has been true in early pianoforte, but it's not the case anymore, see
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...356#p13356
which explains how it works on contemporary grand pianos.
So your una corda models soft part of hammers vs hardened grooves, not 2 vs 3 strings? Or does it model both effects?
What value on the slider represents the most realistic una corda effect? Or is this adjustment a way of specifying the age and use of a piano, in that older worn pianos will have a bigger distinction between standard and una corda (I'm assuming, based on how you're saying it works)?
So your una corda models soft part of hammers vs hardened grooves, not 2 vs 3 strings? Or does it model both effects?
What value on the slider represents the most realistic una corda effect? Or is this adjustment a way of specifying the age and use of a piano, in that older worn pianos will have a bigger distinction between standard and una corda (I'm assuming, based on how you're saying it works)?
It models both effects: grooves influence more the softness of the tone whereas "how many" strings influence the phase relation between strings - even when hitting 2 strings (extreme case), the third string does come into vibration via bridge coupling. I'm not sure if there is a value that can be qualified the most realistic, as reality can vary a lot depending on the state of the hammer surface. The default value could be such a value.
I've been playing Debussy's prelude "Submerged Cathedral" on a C3 using the unacorda pedal to give a muffled misty effect but the top octave seems as bright as ever. The top octave of all instruments seems unaffected by the unacorda pedal even with the soft pedal setting at maximum its this correct?
I've been playing Debussy's prelude "Submerged Cathedral" on a C3 using the unacorda pedal to give a muffled misty effect but the top octave seems as bright as ever. The top octave of all instruments seems unaffected by the unacorda pedal even with the soft pedal setting at maximum its this correct?
John, I tried here now and the soft/una corda pedal works fine, also on the top octave. I suggest that you contact our support team so that they can investigate further how come it does not work in your case.