Japan had the worst earthquake in 140 years.
Despite the magnitude, the casualties was relatively small, considing the high population concentration of Japan, probably due high technology in buildings and security precautions.
Any forum member from Japan, who would like to talk about ?
Nobody ???
Wel, I would like to know why is not possible to turn off the nuclear reactor on Japan ?
The problem of overheat it's said to be due the lack of huge amounts of water, to cool the system.
But why the the nuclear sticks on the reactor can't be removed ??? Is it super heat by itself or need to be in contact with other nuclear material to get reaction and produce heat???
TV and internet do not explain that (they never explain anything right anyway). They only say it's due the pumps not be fully operational and the water are not in a level enough to cool the system, creating high pressure (that lead to the explosions) and creating risk of melt the reactor and release dangerous nuclear materail.
What a hell... How could they built a kind of reactor that can't be turn off ??? Or it can ????
How they could build a nuclear power plant in a tsunami risk area, without a emergency plan, without protection to the pump system ???
What a shame to technology ...
Now the world is on risk of another Chernobyl.
Some internet news (not reliable) posted a graphic of radiation contamination :
It's in portuguese, but the stains on the map are said to be the radiation spreading going withn the wind.
Read this and calm down: http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2...-hysteria/
Today's media tends very much to overblow things and underdeliver facts. Japan is gonna be fine. They'll recover just like they did so many times throughout the history already.
Yeah, I know that it's far safer than Chernobyl for a explosion, as it have a barrier to avoit a explosion like the one of Chernobyl (that had a weak barrier), and the reactor do not burn graphite as Chernobyl.
But there are still a risk.
Now take another kind of reactor, regeneration reactor, that uses liquid sodium to cool the system. And they was building or intenting to built one in Japan.
Liquid sodium in contact with water or air.
But there are still a risk.
Much, MUCH smaller than Chernobyl ever was.
I wouldn't believe that map you've posted - it's pure speculation, zero facts.
Internet have more lies than trues !!! I said the graphic was suspicious...
But supose the core melts. What would happen? The radiation would not leak like Chernobyl, but the area would need to be isolated and a sarcofagus built around the reactor..., or not?
2) The news keeps on talking about the danger of a meltdown!
True, but at the same time the news media are not telling people what exactly is and isn’t a meltdown. Unlike what some people fear, a meltdown is not – I repeat, NOT - something that would lead to a nuclear explosion! What a meltdown basically means is that the reactor core gets so hot that it… melts. While this makes a real mess of things – and is really expensive and time-consuming to clean up – it doesn’t necessarily mean that there is going to be a huge release of radioactive material into the environment. As long as the primary containment vessel at Fukushima holds, and all evidence indicates that this is indeed the case, even with a meltdown the core material will be kept separate from the outside environment.
Tragedy and menace sells newspaper.
Good news have bad sales.
Anyway, such news already affect the finances.
In a documentary aboout Chernoby they said that the whole thing could get into a nuclear eplosion of more than 1 megaton (many times Hiroshima bomb).
But as far as I know it's not easy to get a nuclear explosion, even if you bomb a area where there are a lot of radioactive material. A nuke if not ready for detonation, will not create a nuclear explosion if you hit it with explosives around.
A Nuke (nuclear bomb), need a very special explosion, colision from all side in a special camera, to detonate.
Do youy agree ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission
"While overheating of a reactor can lead to, and has led to, meltdown and steam explosions, the much lower uranium enrichment makes it impossible for a nuclear reactor to explode with the same destructive power as a nuclear weapon. "
Well, this statement makes clear it's impossible a reactor explode like a NUKE. So why the documentary about Chernoby said the whole thing could explode like a nuclear explosion???? Hoax ???
Even if was very rich uraniun, and it wasn't (cause a reactor do not use such) I think it would not get a nuclear explosion, cause there is need a extreme pressure and strike to get the chain reaction.
They say there was plutoniun in chernobyl, ... maybe plutoniun it's easier than uraniun to get a nuclear chain reaction. But if a plutoniun bomb need a very good device to get the necessary power to start the reaction...
To be brutally honest: the tsumani has killed about 10,000 people
The nuclear reactors haven't killed anyone. (yet)
Most of the news reports about this situation are ignornant of the kind of basic physics we learnt in school at the age of 13 or 14... they don't seem to know anything about half-life, isotopes, alpha/beta/gamma emission.
Unfortunately, the seems to have been a bit of a logical flaw in the reactor safety systems... they automatically shut down when there is an earthquake detected - but even in shut-down mode, they still need cooling.
Since the reactor is shut down, it can't provide power from its own cooling... so they have to rely on the backup power for cooling... unfortunately the tsuami killed the backup power... consequence: BOOM!
Reading the reports, it almost seems like it would have been safer not to shut the reactors down in the first place! As then there would still have been primary power for the cooling...
Well, this statement makes clear it's impossible a reactor explode like a NUKE. So why the documentary about Chernoby said the whole thing could explode like a nuclear explosion???? Hoax ???
Nope, no hoax. Chernobyl didn't run on depleted uranium. It didn't even run on depleted plutonium. It was very rich plutonium, hence BOOM!
The deads are still on 2700 . I don't think it will get 10.000.
Still very sad such tragedy. :-(
That was a 8,8 degree earthquake, but there was several others of 6.5 or 7. Why the smaller ones, that was not so smaller ( since 6.3 killed many people in other countries) years ago, did not killed anyone on Japan?
Or the smaller ones, despite be 6 to 7 on scale, have a very short duration ?
Tsunamis need the earthquake to be on sea and have a vertical dislocation.
About the reactor, why they did not turn on again to produce energy to the cooling system ? Automatic mode locking in a way they couldn't unlock ???
One problem in Chernobyl is that they had not a auxiliar system to pump the water.
About the super heat material, it's uraniun. It's not that it is always superheat, but once heated, by reaction, there is so much residual heat (reaction) that it takes several day to it cool and became safe. In other words, the reactor can be complete turn off safelly, but the procedure would take days, like days cooling the uraniun.
About plutoniun on Chernobyl, even a very rich plutoniun need a tremendous explosion, in a special chamber, to get detonation. The Bomb of Nagasaki was a kind of canon, sho shot the plutoniun to colide in a extremely powerful impact.
Anyway, if that whole Chernobyl crap was in a inhabited desert, a detonation the whole thing, in a way to burn all material, withou much radioactive preciptation, would be of less hazard than the cemitions of the reactor was. Would be like a nuclear test.
But how much materal material was there? Probably too much, and would be a explosion way too powerful to be safe.
Why the smaller ones, that was not so smaller ( since 6.3 killed many people in other countries) years ago, did not killed anyone on Japan?
Because the Japanese are taught since elementary school how to behave in case of an earthquake. Each Japanese person has been in an earthquake simulator at least once. They are prepared, they know the land in which they live. Their buildings are projected to withstand tremendous amount of earth shaking (hence you don't see complete devastated cities in Japan today - their architectural achievements are really great!).
They are more prepared for earthquakes than the rest of the world, in short.
About the reactor, why they did not turn on again to produce energy to the cooling system ? Automatic mode locking in a way they couldn't unlock ???
Why don't you ask that question to the Japanese officials in charge of nuclear powerplants?
Beto-Music wrote:Why the smaller ones, that was not so smaller ( since 6.3 killed many people in other countries) years ago, did not killed anyone on Japan?
Because the Japanese are taught since elementary school how to behave in case of an earthquake. Each Japanese person has been in an earthquake simulator at least once. They are prepared, they know the land in which they live. Their buildings are projected to withstand tremendous amount of earth shaking (hence you don't see complete devastated cities in Japan today - their architectural achievements are really great!).
They are more prepared for earthquakes than the rest of the world, in short.
I was there working over Christmas and on the day I moved into my apartment was handed a folder full of advice on what to do in an earthquake. Foolishly I didn't read it. Won't make that mistake again.
I know about Japan's safety building to protect against earthquake, and the rigorous training, emergency plans...
But all the shaking image I saw was credit just to the first earthquake, and saw none from the several smallers, but still strong on scale, that followed the first.
I still think the the others was very short, despite get a scale of 6 to 7, and so less scarring and less harmful.
Their buildings withstood the earthquake brilliantly!
Yeah, they have a sophisticated counterbalance/counterweight system.
But the fact of all buildings resisted... No old building on Japan???
What about the historic buildings ? Why no one get down? Strange... specially for one of the strongest earthquakes.
Old buildings? Even the old Japanese knew about earthquakes and how to make buildings which would withstand them! Buildings constantly get renovated too.
I bet SOME buildings were damaged. But as I said, they're all very well built. Much better than paper-wall buildings in USA.
I'll say it again. Japan is one brilliant nation. So much above the rest of the world, it hurts. THAT is the reason they are withstanding one of the biggest earthquakes ever with so little casaulties. The rest of the world needs to watch them and LEARN.
Old buildings? Even the old Japanese knew about earthquakes and how to make buildings which would withstand them! Buildings constantly get renovated too.
I bet SOME buildings were damaged. But as I said, they're all very well built. Much better than paper-wall buildings in USA.
I'll say it again. Japan is one brilliant nation. So much above the rest of the world, it hurts. THAT is the reason they are withstanding one of the biggest earthquakes ever with so little casaulties. The rest of the world needs to watch them and LEARN.
CNN had some amazing video of some very tall skyscrapers swaying back and forth due to the quake. It was quite amazing to watch them absorbing the shock by acting that way. Like you say, they are designed to behave just that way and are very well built.
In the USA, with the exception of modern nuke plants, the only place I know of where buildings are designed to withstand earthquakes is California. And that is a mixed bag as well.
I hope all is ok with our PT friends who may be from Japan.
Beto-Music wrote:Well, this statement makes clear it's impossible a reactor explode like a NUKE. So why the documentary about Chernoby said the whole thing could explode like a nuclear explosion???? Hoax ???
Nope, no hoax. Chernobyl didn't run on depleted uranium. It didn't even run on depleted plutonium. It was very rich plutonium, hence BOOM!
just some thoughts on Chernobyl:
The situation at the Fukushima Daiichi plant is regarded as the worst nuclear
incident since Chernobyl, but experts agree that the situation is unlikely to reach
anywhere near the level of Chernobyl. William Tucker writes in a Wall Street
Journal editorial that Chernobyl suffered two crucial design flaws: 1) It used
graphite to moderate the neutrons making possible a nuclear reaction (the
Fukushima Daiichi plant uses water instead); and 2) Chernobyl did not have a
containment structure (as Fukushima plant does) to contain the radioactive
explosion.
A report released in 2005 by the Chernobyl Forum, which is made up of 8 UN
specialized agencies, estimated that of the 600,000 people exposed to
radioactive material, 4,000 could eventually die of radiation exposure. However
as of the time of the Chernobyl Forum’s report, which was 20 years after the
disaster, fewer than 50 deaths had been directly attributed to the disaster. Even
in the worse case scenario we would expect the fallout in Japan to be less than in
Chernobyl. Unlike Chernobyl, the areas surrounding the Fukushima Daiichi plant
were evacuated prior to a full scale meltdown. The Japanese government has
currently evacuated a 12 mile radius surrounding the plant and has
recommended that those in an 18 mile radius should leave the area or remain in
doors.
You have probably heard that people in the Nuke plant area are taking a regimen of iodine. we learned how well that worked to prevent thyroid cancer from its use after chernobyl. amazingly low-tech solution.
Let's keep talking about radiation, to avoid someone to request a earthquake simulator for pianoteq, just see if the piano sound it' altered during the shaking.
The iodine saturate the tyroid, avoiding tyroid to absorb any radioactive iodine, cause such iodine could lead to tyroid cancer.
I watched a documentary, called "Fear of Radiation", or something like that, and thay said that radiation it's not so dangerous to health like they thought beore, at least in low dosages.
In the 40's and 50's the thought was the opose, and even carcinogenic radiation doses was thought to be safe. today they think about revalue and find a middle term.
They get a study and find that low doses of radiation could reduce cancer incidence. Radiation is higher in high altitudes, and they studied people who live in high places, and compared cance incidence.
For other side, we now that women who work as stewardess in airplanes that fly in very high altitudes, have higher chances to get a baby with Down's Syndrome. Such flights get a ose of radiation like a torax X-ray per day.
They tried to trace a graphic, showing at which doses radiation was effective to good and for bad.
The documentary also traced sopme things about Chernobyl, and the low deads compared to the early predictions.
And one man, who was in charge of testing Chernobyl reactor, can be blame for the explosion, as he ignored the international security standart of the test, pushing the reactor too much, as he imagined it could handle. The reactor was not well built (not just the bad design problem and lack of protection barrier) and have no automatic mode to avoit the problem they got, and all this help to disater happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe_sD7bP...278277EDD2
The number of causalities from Japan Tsunami it's already beyond 7000 !!! Can reach 15000...
And the situation in the nuclear power plants it's worse than the japanese authorities believed.
I don't understan... Sounds dumb. If one reactor it's ok, why not use the energy produced to feed the water pumps that cooled the other reactors with problem ???
I think there's nothing to understand. Just let the people deal with their issues - the solution is not easy and ordinary people like you and me cannot possibly give a correct answer for their trouble. So all your questions "why this, why that, how come this doesn't work, how come that doesn't work?" are not really helping. It's not like you're in the danger of getting a shitload of radiation through your body, right?
The problem will be solved, it might take some time, but it will, I'm confident in Japanese brains. Just let them be.
I'm not selfish. I will be concerned if the radiation reach other countries, even if not reach my country.
The situation wasn't danger, but they chaged the status of the accident from level 4 to level 5. Things got worse in the last day.
I hope they solve if, but I'm still concerned somehow. It will not be a new Chernobyl, but a fraction of the Chernobyl disaster it's already quite bad.
I'm just reading that the situation is going better. They managed to send power to Fukushima 3 plant and it's being cooled off currently. Radiation levels are not dangerous even in Japan.
See, toldya.
Read this a bit: http://blog.seattlepi.com/theethicist/2...-how-safe/
Good news...
But It was still a almost dumb accident, cause they know the area was prone to tsunami, and could damage the unprotected generators. But had no emergency plan for that, and the auto lock function created this condition leading toi the explosion.
If they had power line already semi connected in case of emergency, to send energy from one reactor to other, it would also avoid much of the problem.
Japan it's really great, and they are very intelligent, extremely organized, punish crime with rigor, have honor, and even the few corrupt they have at least have the decency of commit suicide when they are caught...
I wish my country had halp of that.... especially the suicide in case of corruption.
But they are not perfect and this accident prove nuclear power plant it's still dangerous somehow. They will need to revaluete all safety measures about the nuclear reactor around the world.
The breeding reactor, that can put a end in nuclear trash and solve the problem of limited uraniun mines, it's much more prone to a explosion, as use liquid sodium, that explode in contact with air or water. If they intend to build one in a country prone to earthquakes and tsunamis... I doubt anyone can built a safe instalation for such thing there.
Any crap is possible...
If NASA managed to lost or erase the original Moon Landing recordings, letting only inferior quality copies...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11_missing_tapes
Maybe some guy on NASA recorded football game over the master tapes. Háaaa háaaa....
Any crap is possible. That's why some things are too dangerous and human too weak or confuse to manage very safely.
But had no emergency plan for that, and the auto lock function created this condition leading toi the explosion.
Sorry, you're wrong there, there was no nuclear explosion there. There was only a possibility of meltdown (which is NOT the same as explosion!), and now even that seems to be under control. Calm down.
But they are not perfect and this accident prove nuclear power plant it's still dangerous somehow.
You're wrong there too. This accident proved that it's SAFER than people believe it is. There was no big radiation leaks on a large scale like Chernobyl. Safety measures were in place. I'm gonna repeat this link for you: http://blog.seattlepi.com/theethicist/2...-how-safe/
There was no nuclear explosion, but vapor explosions, 3 at least, creating damage and release of some radiation.
No big deal to be a catastrophe, no irreversible contamination, I agree.
but again, I never said it was a Chernobyl !!!
But this nuclear accident was on Japan, with a lot of great technicians, fast polictic desicions, fast acting of authorities, great care for their people.
You can say that was safe on Japan, and even so need to ignore the initial fails that lead to the problem.
But I imagine if was on my country, with a bunch of evil rats on politic, crap security, crap corrupt inspectors, technicians that play soccer instead of take care of security, no good plans for case of emergency.
And we have two nuclear power plants here.
My concern even to the responsible countries is more to the breeding reactors, that they are building in India, and if I remamber well one in Japan too. They aore cooled by liquid sodium, that explode in contact with water or air. Much more dangerous than standart reactors.
This documentary reexamine the danger of radiation and suggest that small amounts are not dangerous as thought before.
It also suggest that life, plants and animals, repopulate a contamined zone in shorter time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IQWuXtX...re=related
Interesting documentary.
Evil Dragon, you will like.
Anyway, Chernobyll it's still not safe, each 5 years the radioactive dust get in deeper in the soil. Another documentary show many deformed fetus from animals in the area.
I conclude animals and plants survive more than imagined, but also with a lot of mutations and problems.