Are there any plans to add a clavichord (or clavichords) to Pianoteq? I'm not talking about the electric kind—an original acoustic clavichord, something that would go into the KIViR instruments. Also, if there are no plans for a clavichord, can we make some? :3
This has come up before so it's worth a search. I seem to remember that there was some concern about the need for aftertouch to accurately recreate a Clavichord. I can't remember why it was considered a problem though.
I'd love to see an acoustic clav or two added!
do clavichords have polyphonic aftertouch?
If so, sadly not many controller keyboards offer it,
but there are some. And in any case, that shouldn't be Pianoteq's problem
My understand of these matters is that Modartt are generally up for modelling anything that is offered to them... so if any one has a clavichord, they should invite modartt round to record it for their model.
Similarly if anyone has a Hohner Pianet N
I seem to remember that there was some concern about the need for aftertouch to accurately recreate a Clavichord. I can't remember why it was considered a problem though.
Aftertouch is a big issue with the clavichord, and I wonder if there is a midi keyboard capable of simulating the touch. The action is basically a lever, with the key at one end and a metal tangent at the other which both strikes the string and becomes the endpoint of the string. If you play a note and then apply a little extra pressure you can sharpen the note slightly. You can even attempt a vibrato if you like! I've only tried a clavichord a couple of times, but found the delicacy of touch very difficult to handle; you can play with subtle dynamics, but doing so while staying in tune is tricky.
Yep, polyphonic aftertouch is needed for clavichord. That's a rarity. But I guess VAX77 or MIDIboard users would rejoice
Oh, old Ensoniq boards also had poly AT mostly - and some of those can be found quite cheap nowadays.
But I doubt that any of these keyboards would feel at all like a clavichord. I haven't tried a synth keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch, so please correct me, but I would've thought that there would be some effort needed to get the AT, otherwise it would be difficult to control, whereas my experience of the clavichord was that the AT was extremely sensitive, in fact it was a part of the touch itself, and I found it very difficult to control. The clavichord I tried had an extraordinarily light touch.
MIDIboard most likely has aftertouch sensitivity curves. It shouldn't be unrealistic to expect such feature on those boards... After all, aftertouch sensitivity can be completely adjustable software-wise.
The aftertouch vibrato we all seem to be thinking of is called Bebung in German, IIRC.
Yup, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebung
Pressure only sharpens the note, giving it a different sound than the usual vibrato from, say, a violin, which can be done in the opposite direction as well (depending on individual technique, style, etc). Of course, it would be possible to play without this sharpening at all, though that wouldn't be quite as realistic, now would it?
Of course, it would be possible to play without this sharpening at all, though that wouldn't be quite as realistic, now would it?
Nope but I would be perfectly happy with this kind of approximation, I imagine most users would too.
it looks like PCR series controllers from Edirol do offer polyphonic AT. Not exactly big boards with 105 keys (61 max) but a clavichord hasn't so much keys either... And the price is right.
Nope but I would be perfectly happy with this kind of approximation, I imagine most users would too.
It's certainly better than nothing, and I'd be willing to give it a try. Now we just need to find Modartt a clavichord, hm?
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...716#p14716
As you can see, we are willing to provide a clavichord, we just need to find one to serve as model.
it looks like PCR series controllers from Edirol do offer polyphonic AT.
You got me excited there. Poly AT in a cheap controller keyboard? Too good to be true! From reading some other message boards, it seems that information on this is rather confusing, and that the control pads are poly AT, but not the keyboard.
yeah,
it would actually be BIG NEWS if Roland were bringing out a MIDI controller keyboard with Polyphonic Aftertouch again after about 2 decades of dropping support for it -
reading the product brochure it seemed to just say channel aftertouch
reading the owner manual of the (previous) PCR 30/50/80 series, it looks like they already had Polyphonic Aftertouch! I would guess the new models will keep this feature...
Philippe did you get in touch with the owner of a clavichord I mentioned? Or maybe he didn't want to let you record it? You could maybe record one of the instruments in the "MIM" (Musée des Instruments de Musique) in Brussels?
Luc, yes I did. I sent you a PM.
"The Edirol PCR series has both channel and polyphonic aftertouch -- in the PCR Editor you can set the message mode for keyboard aftertouch to one of six modes including Channel, System Realtime, and System Exclusive. If you set it to Channel, you then can set the Type to Channel Pressure, Polyphonic Key Pressure, and ten other types including Program Change and Control Change. Very flexible, almost too much!
The not so good news is the "feel" -- as some others have noted in other music/recording forums, the pressure required to engage aftertouch on the PCR keyboards is quite high. I just used a weight to estimate how much pressure is needed to begin sending an aftertouch message with my PCR and it is over 3 pounds! Even though there are four aftertouch "sensitivity" curves, these only affect the data change with pressure above the minimum -- I couldn't find a way to reduce that ~3 pound minimum!"
If it's really as it says here, then I wouldn't even bother throwing money on that Edirol. Has all the flaws of Roland keybeds - abysmal aftertouch sensitivity.
Reading further through that thread, I noticed someone saying that PCRs do NOT have true PAT. Don't bother. Rather get an old Ensoniq or GEM S3 board.
from the PCR manual:
●Note on
Status
2nd byte 3rd byte
9nH kkH vvH
n = MIDI channel number: 0H – FH (Ch.1 – 16)
kk = note number: 00H – 7FH (0 – 127)
vv = note on velocity: 01H – 7FH (1 – 127)
* Transmitted when you push a key in Play mode.
●Polyphonic key pressure
Status
2nd byte 3rd byte
AnH kkH vvH
n = MIDI channel number: 0H – FH (Ch.1 – 16)
kk = note number: 00H – 7FH (0 – 127)
vv = key pressure: 00H – 7FH (0 – 127)
Darn, no release velocity on that board. Sucks.
OK, the Frankfurt Musik Messe is not that far away, I'll try to put my hands on this toy! ;-)
Do post your insights
from the PCR manual:
●Polyphonic key pressure
Status
2nd byte 3rd byte
AnH kkH vvH
n = MIDI channel number: 0H – FH (Ch.1 – 16)
kk = note number: 00H – 7FH (0 – 127)
vv = key pressure: 00H – 7FH (0 – 127)
Yeah, I think it needs to support that for the pads, not the keys. I'd love to be proven wrong!
Quote from Roland US site:
First and foremost, the PCR is a MIDI keyboard controller. Calling on the 30-plus years of keyboard experience of its parent company Roland, Edirol’s PCR controllers provide a velocity-sensitive synth-action keyboard with a superb response and playing feel. There are 12 different velocity curves available, so you can adjust the playing response to perfectly suit your individual playing style. The keyboard also offers assignable aftertouch (either polyphonic or channel) with four different velocity settings.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5090286-post37.html
this is why I will be happy to go to Frankfurt on april 6th ! Nothing can beat a true "hands-on" experience !
Now if the guy on the Roland-Edirol booth could be kind enough to put a Pianoteq demo together with the PCR... who knows?