Topic: Building new sound system

Hi:

I have a Kawai CA51 that I will use with Pianoteq.  Haven't decided on "Play" vs. "Standard" yet.

I tested it with one of my Linux PCs which worked surprisingly easily.  Only a hum/noise problem which occurs when I connect my amp to my PC, which isn't a Pianoteq problem.  I can fix that.

But my stereo speakers are in the wrong place and too big to use with the piano.  So I'd like to put monitors on the piano, and perhaps a subwoofer below.  I am somewhat obsessed with 9 foot grand piano smooth bass notes. 

Is this a typical configuration?  I'm also tempted to play Pianoteq through the Kawai cabinet speakers, perhaps with a balance of output from the above monitors, and the below speakers.  I'd like to try to get the all-encompassing sound field feeling that a real piano has. 


I'm considering a pair of PSB Image B4 monitors.  I have PSB Image B26 for my stereo speakers, and am very happy with them.

Though NHT Absolute Zero or SuperZero 2.0 Mini Monitors are getting my attention as perhaps a less expensive option.

Not sure if I will just steal the NAD amplifier from the stereo until I can afford another one.

Also, I presently am using just the motherboard sound chip, a Realtek whatever.  It doesn't sound bad.  I am concerned that the reviews for M-Audio Audiophile 2496 cards are not consistent, with many folks complaining about the sound quality being harsh or having problems with crackles.  I figure I'll put together the speaker system and get the program running first, then see if it might be worth investing in a better sound card.

An interesting question becomes, what mode of output should be used with speakers, the binaural, or other settings?  I guess I'll have to experiment with this.

Re: Building new sound system

Mr.CRC wrote:

Hi:

I have a Kawai CA51 that I will use with Pianoteq.  Haven't decided on "Play" vs. "Standard" yet.

I tested it with one of my Linux PCs which worked surprisingly easily.  Only a hum/noise problem which occurs when I connect my amp to my PC, which isn't a Pianoteq problem.  I can fix that.

That's a ground loop, you need to get your amp power from the same outlet you connect your computer.

Have you considered a good pair of headphones?

http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ my very own one man band project

Re: Building new sound system

Or get yourself a 'Behringer Hum Destroyer' (Very very good piece of kit!)

Re: Building new sound system

I agree, it's a ground loop. To prove that, if you run your laptop on battery it should go away. The Behringer or an Ebtech hum eliminator should work, or you could also just put a 3-to-2 prong ground lift on the laptop and that would probably work as well, if you're comfortable not having it grounded.

I've had an Audiophile 2496 for at least 7-8 years with no issues whatsoever, and the sound is excellent (Windows XP).

No comment on the speakers, I'm not very knowledgeable.

Cheers,
Michael

Re: Building new sound system

Mr.CRC wrote:

I have a Kawai CA51 that I will use with Pianoteq.

Please describe the action on your CA51. I'm thinking of buying a CL35 which I believe has the same if not similar action. Thank you,

Chris

Re: Building new sound system

Thanks for the replies.

Ok, I got Pianoteq Play working tonight, with no hum (see below).  I'm not sure the results are quite what I was hoping for.  At first, I played it through speakers, which wasn't quite satisfactory with any of the output modes for the K1.  This is peculiar, because I do like the sound of some of the demos that I downloaded and play via my Cowan MP3 player, through the same amp and speakers.

Then I tried headphones.  It is with headphones that the otherwise satisfactory output of my Kawai CA51 really sucks.  I had my wife switch between output modes and K1, C3, and M3, while I wore the headphones. 

With headphones, I definitely prefer the binaural output.  The K1 is a little too bright on the bass end, while the high end is Ok.  The C3 is preferrable in the bass, but too mellow on the high end.  The M3 is just too mellow in general.  So now I'm not sure what to do next.  I think I will spend some time alternating headphones with Pianoteq, vs. the Kawai with its built-in speakers.

Ok, about the ground loop.  I didn't want to wait for ordering a commercial device to fix this, so today I built a dual differential amplifier circuit to fix the hum, using a pair of AD620 instrumentation amplifier chips.  This cleans up the hum perfectly, leaving only a trace of high frequency buzzing and some clicks and pops, that seem to correlate with computer activity.

The next trick will be to see if a better sound card device will improve the noise level.  At this point, I don't know if the remaining noise is high frequency common mode, or differential mode.  If differential mode, it is from the sound card itself.  But it could still be due to the fact that while the low freq. CMRR of the AD620 is very high, at high frequencies it begins to deteriorate.  Nonetheless, at the volume settings I need to work with, the noise is actually imperceptible even without any notes going.  There is also the option of experimenting with some of the THAT 1200 series devices, which I should probably do, since they are remarkably cheaper than AD620s, and now are available from Mouser Electronics.

I will probably pick up a Jensen transformer, or perhaps one of the other devices mentioned.  I should put my AD620 circuit on a PCB and open-source them.  The PCB plus parts cost will probably work out competitive with commercial products.

Re: Building new sound system

sigasa wrote:
Mr.CRC wrote:

I have a Kawai CA51 that I will use with Pianoteq.

Please describe the action on your CA51. I'm thinking of buying a CL35 which I believe has the same if not similar action. Thank you,

Chris

Hi,

At the time I bought the CA51, I vaguely recall that only the CA series had the "best" keyboard action that Kawai had to offer on the digital pianos.  I'm sure things have changed since then.

I was drawn to the CA51 because the action was light and bouncy, vs. heavy and dull which I felt was the case for a similarly priced Yamaha.  I had also tried Roland, and was put off by some aspects that I can't recall.

I am perfectly happy with the CA51 action at this point.

Re: Building new sound system

I think , there is Line in in Kawai CA51 keyboard 2X40watt must be enough for good reproducing Pianoteq sound . Only if U need to make surround sound , ... it's O.K. , for that needs additional amp's & speakers . Only not forget , when playing with Pianoteq , to switch off internal Kawai's piano sounds. )) .