Topic: Reverb for Pianoteq

I find that for me the reverb in Pianoteq has limited usefulness. If set so that there is a sense of space in the lower piano registers, there's usually way too much resonance for me in the upper registers. If set according to upper register sound, the bottom is too dry. As far as I can tell, it's one or the other.

Can anyone recommend reverb software that might meet my needs. I suspect that some sort of rolloff of upper frequencies may be what I'm looking for, or lower frequency emphasis. I should mention that my experience with reverb is limited.

Michael

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

You might also want to play a bit on the microphone positioning page. Interesting results await there

Hard work and guts!

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

EvilDragon wrote:

You might also want to play a bit on the microphone positioning page. Interesting results await there

Can that affect the sound of the reverb? Or might you need less of it?

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

It might change the sound that gets to the reverb, meaning you can concentrate or abstract from certain resonances. Micing is actually more important than reverb itself, because it gives the core of the sound to work with.


If that fails, you might wanna try PSP Pianoverb.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Cool, that sounds VERY interesting. I've always liked how much you can shape the sound with the mics.

Thanks,
Michael

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

I can really recommend this reverb, and the price is good too

http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod...?pid=AD023

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

olepro wrote:

I can really recommend this reverb, and the price is good too

http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod...?pid=AD023

Thanks, that reverb looks interesting. PSP Pianoverb will probably be the first one I try, since it's free and a few people now, including EvilDragon, have told me that it's good.

We've gotten to a point where 'free' plugin no longer means 'bad' plugin.  I've also heard good things about Ambience, which is another free reverb plugin. I don't need anything fancy, and if the Pianoteq reverb had high damping, I suspect I'd be a happy camper with just that.

Last edited by Michael H (19-01-2011 20:23)

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Take a look at Altiverb.
It's a bit of overkill - lots of locations (cathedrals, studios, concert halls, etc.) AND lots of freedom to adjust parameters (mic placement, type of mic, etc.)

www.audioease.com/Pages/Altiverb/AltiverbMain.html

Not too expensive IMO for what you get.

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

May Iask someone to put a comparison of pianoteq reverb and these high end reverb plugins ?
I'm curious so heard what these plugins have of special.


I also would like to make a suggestion to pianoteq virtual space (mic, piano position etc).
What a bout a "duo piano space" ?   In the virtual space we get two pianos, and you could put one in variable positions to the other, even one over another, and the mics in variable positions.

Along to that feauture, a option on pianoteq to mix two midi, one to each piano.
This would turn possible to one player play in one piano, and latter play in another, in this virtual space, mixing both.
Would require a play-along, or record-along, as the second piano palying need to be made by listening the first piano, to play together.


I hope Moddart stop me if I'm turing them crazy with such request.  :-)

Think about... What other piano software could offer a piano duet option like that ?

Last edited by Beto-Music (22-01-2011 19:32)

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

9fingers wrote:

Take a look at Altiverb.
It's a bit of overkill - lots of locations (cathedrals, studios, concert halls, etc.) AND lots of freedom to adjust parameters (mic placement, type of mic, etc.)

www.audioease.com/Pages/Altiverb/AltiverbMain.html

Not too expensive IMO for what you get.

Thanks for the recommendation, I've heard great things about Altiverb. It's WAY more than what I need since I'd be using it for piano primarily, but for someone who needs that flexibility, it's probably money well spent.

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Beto-Music wrote:

What a bout a "duo piano space" ?   In the virtual space we get two pianos, and you could put one in variable positions to the other, even one over another, and the mics in variable positions.

Along to that feauture, a option on pianoteq to mix two midi, one to each piano.
This would turn possible to one player play in one piano, and latter play in another, in this virtual space, mixing both.
Would require a play-along, or record-along, as the second piano palying need to be made by listening the first piano, to play together.

Isn't this already possible by running two instances of Pianoteq? I've never tried it, but it seems doable.

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Another free one to consider is EpicVerb: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/200.../epicverb/  which was recommended to me when I asked exactly the same question. ;^)  I think it's excellent.

I tried Altiverb too, and thought it was just slightly better than EpicVerb, mainly because Altiverb could produce little "echoes" in the reverb, which I don't think EpicVerb can do.

A tip for EpicVerb: if you find that the reverb sometimes produces a slightly fake flanging/chorussing sound, reduce Modulation. (this advice probably applies to other reverbs too - for example I hear it in the AudioDamage "SuperHall" demo)

Greg.

Last edited by skip (22-01-2011 22:44)

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

skip wrote:

Another free one to consider is EpicVerb: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/200.../epicverb/  which was recommended to me when I asked exactly the same question. ;^)  I think it's excellent.

I tried Altiverb too, and thought it was just slightly better than EpicVerb, mainly because Altiverb could produce little "echoes" in the reverb, which I don't think EpicVerb can do.

A tip for EpicVerb: if you find that the reverb sometimes produces a slightly fake flanging/chorussing sound, reduce Modulation. (this advice probably applies to other reverbs too - for example I hear it in the AudioDamage "SuperHall" demo)

Greg.

Hey Greg!

Those are amazing demos! Even with tons of reverb it sounds super clean and smooth to me. I'm looking forward to trying this one

Thanks,
Michael

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Beto-Music wrote:

I hope Moddart stop me if I'm turing them crazy with such request.  :-)

You are crazy

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Speaking of PSP Pianoverb, has anyone tried PSP Vintage Warmer with Pianoteq?

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

I think that Pro version of Pianoteq , must be equipped with impulse response (IR) efx. engine, instead of simple reverb,- with possibility to import IR files ( in WAV. format, with no possible limit of longiness ). I understand that answer from pianoteq , engineers will be , that it will takes big resources from computer, (but there is lot of impuse response verbs in IT, which takes no big resources from computer ), & I think if it's possible, in pro version ,- must be , because I hope pro version users , have pro version computers . In another way if this engine will be possible to import  IR's in wav format , we can have very good another add in efx. fields , because we can import not only impulses , but other sounds , which will trasform pianoteq sound totally , but its just for different efx. & timbres . & another thing in pianoteq it's good to have not RANDOM knob , but RANDOM dial tuning possibility , if I write not properly in english ,- possibility to make with dial turn morphing sound in real time . Make it please, I know U can, because I ask many things from U & U did .

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Shumas wrote:

I think that Pro version of Pianoteq , must be equipped with impulse response (IR) efx. engine, instead of simple reverb,- with possibility to import IR files ( in WAV. format, with no possible limit of longiness ).

I don't have the Pro version, but is this correct? Do you see anything that looks like impulse response files? My expectation is that Modartt would take an algorthmic approach rather using convolution -- but I'm just guessing about this.

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Convolution reverbs indeed sound much much better than algorithmic reverbs - of course, depending on the impulse used!

It would be a logical step of evolution for Pianoteq, using convolution instead, or along with, algorithmic reverb. We shall see.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

EvilDragon wrote:

Convolution reverbs indeed sound much much better than algorithmic reverbs - of course, depending on the impulse used!

It would be a logical step of evolution for Pianoteq, using convolution instead, or along with, algorithmic reverb. We shall see.

Convolution reverb sure would sound nice! But I'd like having the algorithmic reverb too, so that less powerful systems like netbooks would still be able to use it.

We're edging back to the old topic of how 'standalone' Pianoteq should be. For live performance a good decent reverb of any kind would probably be adequate, and as I've said before, a good stereo chorus, and I think both should be onboard. In a home/studio situation we can be more picky, and we probably should be. In that context I can't see Modartt commiting valuable resources to including a convolution with nearly as much control as say Voxengo's Pristine Space.

If there were a few more controls to the current onboard reverb, like frequency adjustable high damping, I think it would be completely adequate for live use, though for recording, I have to agree, you can't beat convolutiion.

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

and for those few of you who run linux you might want to check this out http://factorial.hu/plugins/lv2/ir

http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ my very own one man band project

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

EvilDragon wrote:

Convolution reverbs indeed sound much much better than algorithmic reverbs - of course, depending on the impulse used! It would be a logical step of evolution for Pianoteq, using convolution instead, or along with, algorithmic reverb. We shall see.

Allow me to disagree. Good algorithmic reverbs — the IRCAM Spat for example, or the native Lexicon, or the UAD 140/250, or TC's VSS3 or Softube's TSAR, to name just those that I'm familiar with — are in no way inferior to even the best convolution engines. In fact, they're way more versatile, much more adjustable (in order to find the optimal relationship with the source signal, which is extremely important and which is also where convolution-based reverb often fails frustratingly) and, when used properly, they sound every bit as glorious, if not more so. The combination Pianoteq-IRCAMSpat, for instance, is infinitely more powerful and richer in satisfying possibilities than the combination Pianoteq-Altiverb. And more French as well, of course.

For spatialization purposes, I'd much rather see a high-end algorithmic reverb engine built into Pianoteq than a convolution-based reverb engine.

On the other hand, convolution (working with very specific IR's of 'ambience'-recordings made inside or very close to a real piano — the way Frank Zappa recorded parts for "Lumpy Gravy" and "Civilization Part III" — , and preferably using the very same instruments which Pianoteq is emulating) could perhaps add an additional dimension to Pianoteq's sound (a more developed sense of presence, body, perspective and depth maybe) which would be hard to achieve with algorithmic reverberation alone.

_

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

UAD, TC, they're fine. Lexicon is way overrated and nothing special if you ask me.

Using multi-dimensional impulses is pretty much awesome (Vienna MIR), albeit very CPU intensive. However, it gives the best sounding results, IMHO.

Last edited by EvilDragon (03-02-2011 11:39)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Reverb for Pianoteq

Piet De Ridder wrote:

...On the other hand, convolution (working with very specific IR's of 'ambience'-recordings made inside or very close to a real piano — the way Frank Zappa recorded parts for "Lumpy Gravy" and "Civilization Part III" — , and preferably using the very same instruments which Pianoteq is emulating) could perhaps add an additional dimension to Pianoteq's sound (a more developed sense of presence, body, perspective and depth maybe) which would be hard to achieve with algorithmic reverberation alone. _

1+ for either an algorithmic or convolution reverb based on IR's from recordings made inside the piano.