Hi,
Anyone here successfully runs Pianoteq on a portable (preferably ultra-portable, in the 11"-13" screen size range) ?
What model, CPU, audio device, etc. are you using, and at what cost ?
Thanks
You can do quite a bit of tweaking with Pianoteq to allow it to run on unlikely systems. For example (as a test of course) I was able to get things running rather smoothly on my old 1.2 ghz G4, but I had to do the following:
- Reverb off
- Stereophonic (rather than mic modeling mode)
- 29400 sample rate
- 24 voice max polyphony
It still sounded good enough for live performance, and you could process it a bit to make it sound even better (external FX).
I also had things running nicely on an AMD 1.8 ghz (single core) setup...44 khz, reverb, higher polyphony, and even moderate mic modeling. I did have a good audio card though...
Much of your performance will rely on a low latency audio card, so using built-in audio on a netbook means using the settings I mentioned above.
JR
Thanks for the reply johnrule.
I'm aiming for a configuration that will allow to run Pianoteq without compromise on the sample rate for example. If an AMD 1.8GHz can do it, I think a Core i3 330M for example should do it, and I intended to add an emu 0404 USB which claims something like 0 latency, but I guess it's some sort of marketing trick.
There are some 13" laptop with that kind of CPU, but if anyone has a working configuration in the 500€ range, I'm still interested.
Yes, the Core i3 330M (2.13GHz) should EASILY do it, because it has a higher CPU rating (1956) than my Core 2 Duo P8600 (2.4GHz), which has a rating of 1608, and my laptop runs Pianoteq very well indeed. (60% CPU utilisation when generating the maximum 256 voices of polypohony)
Even on my 1.66GHz N450 based netboook, and forcing Pianoteq to run internally at 44.1kHz, I can get 24 voices, and that's WITH reverb on as well. (using a USB interface drops the usable polyphony down a notch to 16 though)
Also, it is possible to get very high performance laptops with small displays, e.g the HP Elitebook series:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/au/en/sm...55549.html
Greg.
You might find some Core 2 Duo based laptops on clearance sale in your price range. E.g, I found a Dell Latitude E4300 (13.3", P9400 @2.4GHz) for AU$657 = EUR 506. Exactly the same Passmark rating as mine.
Greg.
The netbook isn't quite managing 16 voices (using USB audio). Every now and then, I hear a tiny click. I experimented a bit with the ASIO buffer size, and felt that at 1024 it was working without any clicks at all, however the latency was excessive. I then reduced the buffer size down to 256 and decreased Pianoteq's internal sample rate to 29400 and that seemed to work fine too although I'd need to do longer term testing to be sure. (which I probably won't bother doing)
Greg.
Now interesting that you managed to run it on a N450, I thought it was way too low for Pianoteq. Now maybe I can aim smaller and still affordable solutions (the HP Elitebook are very nice indeed, at 500€ I wouldn't hesitate ).
I looked for a Dell Latitude, but they don't sell it here (France), however they have the Inspiron M301z (13") and M101z (11") with respectively Turion II Neo K625 and AMD Athlon II Neo K325 which both are dual core. Now I dismissed these laptops in my search because I thought the CPU was too slow, but I will reconsider it.
The thing is, I don't much about CPU, but I think if I chose a laptop with a low TDP CPU, it should require less cooling, and the laptop should be quieter which is important for me as it will be next to the piano. Then again these kind of CPU have lower performance than a "normal" CPU for the same price. So I have to decide between those 2 kinds of CPU (I saw Intel has a Core iN NNN UM serie also for low energy CPU).
If you want a laptop dedicated strictly to Pianoteq you might look into used laptops. You don't need a battery, because Pianoteq will drain a battery in short order anyway. You don't need much memory. If a few screen pixels are bad it doesn't really matter. You don't even need a working hard drive, you can run Pianoteq on Puppy Linux with a USB stick, or CD with USB stick if it can't boot from USB. All you really need is an adequate processor.
Tinknocker, that's indeed a good idea. Except If I go for the smallest laptop (I was initially aiming at 11" max), I think I won't find many used laptops that have enough power. But in the 13" range I might have more luck. Another thing is I need a good HD because I'll probably install Ivory II as well. And Windows 7 because the emu 0404 doesn't seem to have linux drivers.
I run Pianoteq without issues of any kind on an Asus eee netbook with the N450 processor and 2GB of memory. The settings are: internal sample rate of 24000Hz, host sample rate of 96000Hz (HD audio via the internal soundcard), 512 samples, polyphony set to 48, and this gives me a latency of 5.3ms. I set the CPU frequency to a constant 1600Mhz, no throttling.
Once it's set up, I close the lid and change settings/patches via my controller. The battery life is excellent, because the biggest drain on battery life is usually the display.
Michael
Michael,
Is there any reason you chose 96000/512 instead of 48000/256?
Thanks,
Greg.
Michael,
Is there any reason you chose 96000/512 instead of 48000/256?Thanks,
Greg.
Hey Greg,
It was a while ago, so I'm not entirely sure, but I think I was getting audio glitches with 256. If you like I can test it out.
Michael
what's the point in the "battery life"? I suppose neither your keyboard neither your PA system is running on battery anyway... or is it ???
what's the point in the "battery life"? I suppose neither your keyboard neither your PA system is running on battery anyway... or is it ???
Well, for me, I appreciate less wires and plugs, and my controller can be powered by USB also. This is for gigs mainly, but at home it's sometimes cool to have a keyboard setup, assuming headphones not an amp, that needs no AC. Especially during a thunderstorm
Michael,
I think the only reason to use a higher sample rate for the audio interface than Pianoteq would be to further reduce latency, if the buffer size was already at the lowest setting. The reason I asked about 48000/256 is because this would produce EXACTLY the same ASIO latency as 96000/512, and may also slightly improve performance, because Pianoteq would then be sending audio to the ASIO driver at half the rate. (i.e 48000 samples/s instead of 96000).
48000/256 seems to work fine for me, and I can even bump the polyphony up to 64 it seems. (I watched the CPU graph in Pianoteq, and it never produced the red CPU spikes, and I never heard any clicks) My netook has exactly the same CPU & clock speed as yours. This is of course with Pianoteq's internal sample rate set to the same as you - 24000. Not too shabby, eh? I am using ASIO4ALL with the internal audio interface.
Unfortunately my audio interface doesn't support a sample rate of 24000 - I would have liked to have tried that too.
Greg.
I don't believe it.
I was just using my netbook, with ear buds, and there was a thunder strike, and I received a small electric shock in my ears!!!
I was NOT running on battery power. Drats. I should have taken Michael's advice!!!!
Fortunately all my equipment (and my ears!) seems to be ok. I am typing this on battery power, and I have internet access due to my UPS. ;^) ;^) (power is out)
Greg.
Whoa, that's nasty Greg, good thing your ears are ok!
Regarding the netbook settings, I'm also using Asio4All, and my performance index is usually 9-10. What's your PI?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a higher sample rate for the audio interface, not Pianoteq's internal sample rate, would improve audio quality. Of course, for gigs the noise floor is so high that it wouldn't make much difference.
Michael
p.s. get out the candles and flashlight
Thanks - yes - all ok, and I even have power back. I was thinking how great real pianos are - they just keep working.
It is HIGHLY unlikely that an audio interface sample rate of 96000 would be any better than 48000. Remember, Pianoteq is already limiting it's bandwidth to 24000/2 = 12kHz (the Nyquist rate, which you may have heard of) , so NOTHING we can do after Pianoteq can restore frequencies greater than 12kHz.
Without getting into the nitty gritty of sampling theory, it is TECHNICALLY possible for the fidelity to be better with Pianoteq generating audio at 24000, and then "up sampling" to 96000, than it would be for Pianoteq to be up sampling only to 48000Hz. It depends on how good Pianoteq is at performing sample rate conversion, and how good the audio interface is at filtering each sample rate to produce the analog output signal. I'd be a bit surprised if anyone could notice any difference, however. The main factor is the loss of bandwidth due to the rather low internal rate (24000Hz), and that's why I think it makes more sense to slosh less data around and use a lower interface rate. (btw, I realise that 24000Hz is not all that bad for piano sounds. It might be a bit different if Pianoteq ever models cymbals ;^)
I forget the P.I - I'll check next time I use it.
Greg.
I looked for a Dell Latitude, but they don't sell it here (France)
They do, Papi! 6 months ago, I bought my Tablet-PC Latitude XT2 via their French webpage, from section Petites et moyennes entreprises.
P.I.= 19
Michael,
My netbook P.I is 10.
Cheers,
Greg.
Papi wrote:I looked for a Dell Latitude, but they don't sell it here (France)
They do, Papi! 6 months ago, I bought my Tablet-PC Latitude XT2 via their French webpage, from section Petites et moyennes entreprises.
P.I.= 19
Yes what a shame, I didn't look in the PME side of dell.fr ! I saw it after during my search, I thought the prices where really attractive, until I realized I had to add the 20% TVA.
Anyway, I found a used Dell M1330 with a T9300, 4GB RAM and 320 GB HD at 7200 rpm which should do the work, so my search is ended. Thanks everybody for the help !
Michael,
My netbook P.I is 10.Cheers,
Greg.
Thanks Greg, it's the same as mine then, not too shabby.
Michael
Papi, that should give you really nice performance, congrats!
Note that I do see the red CPU spikes when running at a polyphony of 64 voices every now & then, so 48 is probably safer. Haven't heard any clicks yet though.
Greg.