Topic: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

Sometimes when I listen to Pianoteq recordings in lofi headphones, the overtones seem to be causing distortion. Is there a way around this? Could the limiter somehow be used to eliminate this problem?

(As a sidenote - do you recommend to keep the limiter on or off when recording solo piano with the K1, if one's number one priority is authentic piano sound?)

Thanks!
Anders.

Last edited by nothingbutblues (23-12-2010 08:12)

Re: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

Hello Anders,

Before we talk about lo-fi 'phones, let's consider a few ideas first:

Pianoteq's built-in limiter happens to reduce the signal when two things occur simultaneously:  A) When the volume/dynamic range sliders are set too high .... for B) the amount of note-on velocity you are playing.  Restated, it is possible that, when one plays with rather high velocities (consistently 100+) AND with high volume levels in the Pianoteq model that audio distortion will occur -- regardless of the quality of playback device.

From my own experience, if most of my playing is within, say, 30 to 90 note-on velocity values with only an occasional 110 velocity, I can leave the limiter shut off.  If a particular piece requires me to play with consistently higher average velocities. then I use the Limiter.

If, as you say, when you are recording solo piano with the K1, why not try leaving the limiter turned on ... during the recording process ... and then go back and disable it when listening to your playback.  Your ears will tell you whether the limiter should remain on or could be safely shut off.

* * * * * * *

Let's go on to the headphone topic:
When you listen to other peoples' recordings of Pianoteq performances, or of commercial piano recordings, ... do the high frequencies distort in your personal headphones?

If the answer is "No, it only occurs in my own Pianoteq recordings, but not other peoples' recordings", then logic would suggest that you have Pianoteq's volume/dynamic range sliders set too high.  In other words, your playing characteristics (in the form of note-on velocities) are probably too "hot" for the given volume slider setting you are using.  In such a case, possibly not even a limiter will help UNLESS you reduce the overall volume slider within Pianoteq.

If your answer is "Yes, it occurs also in other peoples' recordings of Pianoteq, and even occurs in commercial recordings" ... then first borrow a better pair of headphones and decide whether the cans are at fault.  It is also possible you are over-driving your amplifier to clipping distortion -- in which case, the highs are the first to be noticed as distorting.

Obviously, this is not the end-all of discussions on this topic, but it might point you in a direction where you may help yourself out of this problem.

One last thought:  If one admits to lo-fi headphones, would it make much difference whether the limiter was on in the first place?  Just a thought.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

You can set a velocity limit in the velocity curve section to act as a limiter...then turn off the built-in limiter (which does add artifacts imo).

JR

Re: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

nothingbutblues wrote:

they really fail miserably at recreating the high frequencies of a PianoTeq grand

What is your comparison? Evidently you've heard Pianoteq through something else and it sounded better?

Maybe you are describing another issue. Those DT250s have a frequency range (supposedly) of 10hz to 30khz, which should be enough.

A higher sample rate might work...try 48 khz or 96 khz if you can.

JR

Re: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

Hello Anders,

If, in fact, your Beyerdynamics headphones work well with what you hear in Pianoteq  -- AND -- listening to Pianoteq with Portapros when you are on the go (presumably listening to recordings of Pianoteq performances), then may I suggest the following:

When you create mp3's for your portable listening, consider reducing the highs of whatever recording (Pianoteq or other) makes your Portapro's distort.  Mp3 files are comparatively small, anyway, and you might even carry two copies (high- and lo-fi) with you when on the go. 

Regarding your initial question, whether using the limiter would help:  I would simply suggest to try it!  In fact, I would suggest modifying the limiter or (possibly better yet) reduce the highest frequencies by EQ of those performances you wish to take with you on the go, listening through your Portapro devices.  You may even wish to create a folder in your storage device that specifically contains performances that were limited/EQ'd in order to listen with the lo-fi 'phones.

Hope this helps,

Joe

[EDIT]
P.S.  After trying this, please get back in touch with the forum to tell us whether these suggestions worked for you.

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (28-12-2010 20:58)

Re: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

nothingbutblues wrote:

FAIL ALERT

I realized the other day that the reason my PianoTeq recordings tend to distort in my PortaPros is that my mp3 player lets you slide the volume beyond 100%. As my PianoTeq recordings tend to be very low, I constantly played them back at levels above 100%, causing all the weird audio distortion.

My bad.

You did say in the OP that you listen to recordings in lofi headphones...totally missed that (which would be a FAIL on my part).

JR

Re: Overtones causing distortion in lofi headphones, plus limiter question

I had a problem with distorted overtones. You might want to look at the thread I started called "sound problem"